Windows XP

[dezekiel]

Can I take a minute to say that Windows XP looks like a cross between Win2000 and a nice warm fuzzy childs toy.

Everytime I reboot it closes all my shared folders and makes me go through the "Networking Setup Wizard" where it tells me my setup is unsafe and then sets up some kind of firewall before it is happy. There is no option to tell it that I am behind a firewall already. But the next time I reboot I have to go through it all over again.

Does anyone have any nice things to say about Win XP?

Dan

[dnar]

This will ease your burden (http://65.108.103.173/forum/showthread.php?threadid=85) :D

[wbierman]

What build are you running?

Was it a "clean" install or an upgrade?

I have build 2505 running on 3 machines without a single issue.


_____________________
-will

[Virus]

Sorry, I still can't stand it. I'll go with your childs toy statement.

[Rick_Deadly]

Will XP be licenced the same as the Microsoft .net stuff eventually?

[dezekiel]

I am running build 2499....my problems might be due to the piece of software I ran to end the time limit on XP. :D I haven't rebooted to see if it will cut my shares again since I ran the Networking Wizard. Hell, the box basically does nothing except chrunch genes. I stuck XP on it just to see what its like. I am spending a lot more time messing with my linux systems (dnar will be happy) so I haven't sat down with XP in a few days.
Now if I can only get Samba to run....

Dan

[wbierman]

Lose that build and grab RC1 or (2505). Your problems will go away...



_____________________
-will

[Virus]

Yes. With the exception that you lose all of your privacy.

[wbierman]

Virus- tell the truth! One does not loose anything!

For those of you who know nothing about Windows XP, try this 3rd party review located here:

http://www.winsupersite.com/default.asp




______________
-will

[phil]

Numbers speak louder than words (http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.html?i=1501)

[Bruce]

Originally posted by Virus
Yes. With the exception that you lose all of your privacy.

I think that's spelled piracy.:D

[zhotfire]

Originally posted by Virus
Yes. With the exception that you lose all of your privacy.
Didn't M$ tell you? The "remote access desktop" is there to help you....;)

[wbierman]

Listen up kiddies....

Any outfit that runs so called "tests" on beta code compared to shipping code is just plain stupid! I use to have a great deal of respect for Anandtech. But after reading the Win XP "bloat" comparision, they're not going to be on my list for credible info.

They even admitted they had RC1 but didn't have a proper Intel driver so they did not use the latest code. Beta 2? That code is histroy...dead! It will never see a typical users desktop...ever!

They lowered the test bar to make the "test" work. Pure BS!

Speaking of credible info... has anyone ever come accross any hardware review site that actually reported on a MoBo dead out of the box? Have any of them done a 30-60-90 day report on how the various boards have held up under 24/7 loads? All I have read is there are slight differences between the various boards like speed or ease of overclocking. Nothing long term....

My personal experience has shown a completely different outcome from what all the hardware sites seem to show. For example: I have had 10 mobos this year with the VIA KT133A chipset. Only 2 are still running. All of the rest have either been DOA or died after 30-60 days. Usually in the IO department with total loss of IO to hard disks to the point of total non recognition of any hard drive. These "bad" boards have been from Gigabyte, FIC, MSI, and Abit.

My ASUS mobos seem to be the answer with their AliMagic chipsets. All are running without any hardware issues.

Sorry for the rant. Some things just piss me off! :MAD:


_________________________
-will

[Rick_Deadly]

Originally posted by wbierman
Listen up kiddies....

Any outfit that runs so called "tests" on beta code compared to shipping code is just plain stupid! I use to have a great deal of respect for Anandtech. But after reading the Win XP "bloat" comparision, they're not going to be on my list for credible info.

They even admitted they had RC1 but didn't have a proper Intel driver so they did not use the latest code. Beta 2? That code is histroy...dead! It will never see a typical users desktop...ever!

They lowered the test bar to make the "test" work. Pure BS!

Speaking of credible info... has anyone ever come accross any hardware review site that actually reported on a MoBo dead out of the box? Have any of them done a 30-60-90 day report on how the various boards have held up under 24/7 loads? All I have read is there are slight differences between the various boards like speed or ease of overclocking. Nothing long term....

My personal experience has shown a completely different outcome from what all the hardware sites seem to show. For example: I have had 10 mobos this year with the VIA KT133A chipset. Only 2 are still running. All of the rest have either been DOA or died after 30-60 days. Usually in the IO department with total loss of IO to hard disks to the point of total non recognition of any hard drive. These "bad" boards have been from Gigabyte, FIC, MSI, and Abit.

My ASUS mobos seem to be the answer with their AliMagic chipsets. All are running without any hardware issues.

Sorry for the rant. Some things just piss me off! :MAD:
_________________________
-will

I kow what you mean I hardly trust any review site also. I can't afford enough boards to get the personal experience you have though.

Right now I have 3 boards AMD750, KT133, and KT133A. Fortunately all have been running great for months. :knockonwood:

[dnar]

I heard something about Toms Hardware receiving tons of FREE hardware....... I guess they are not biased in their opinions though......:rolleyes:

[wbierman]

I wonder now..... why give up "free" hardware. All you have to do is say good things with a ding here and there and watch the hardware come rolling in. Perfect gig for a hardware junky! I would love to get those "unlocked" samples from Intel...


_______________
-will

[dnar]

I just had a very, very, good, idea........

I'm going to do reveiws :D

[wbierman]

Sure enough....

Reach out and rip your heart clean out and send ya a bill to boot! Such a deal...

[wbierman]

Maybe you are thinking about Remote Assistance? Where you send me a Remote Assistance Request by email. You may be anywhere in the world and I respond to your request. You then give me permission to take full control of your machine as if I were sitting right there with you. You may at any time terminate my control. You watch as I check various things before finding the problem and correcting it. I fix the issue that you are having and your machine is better, you are happy that it is fixed and life goes on.

Personally, I can't wait to get this for my Mom. That will put an end to all the phone calls asking what this message is or what that means, etc etc.

In the business world... think of how more productive the Help Desk wil be with this ability. This single feature will change the face of assistance forever. I'm sure MS will employ this feature to aid suppport calls in the future.

[zhotfire]

Originally posted by wbierman
Maybe you are thinking about Remote Assistance? Where you send me a Remote Assistance Request by email. You may be anywhere in the world and I respond to your request. You then give me permission to take full control of your machine as if I were sitting right there with you. You may at any time terminate my control. You watch as I check various things before finding the problem and correcting it. I fix the issue that you are having and your machine is better, you are happy that it is fixed and life goes on.

Personally, I can't wait to get this for my Mom. That will put an end to all the phone calls asking what this message is or what that means, etc etc.

In the business world... think of how more productive the Help Desk wil be with this ability. This single feature will change the face of assistance forever. I'm sure MS will employ this feature to aid suppport calls in the future.
I agree it will make many people's lives much easier, it's the potential for abuse that concerns me. There are too many trusting souls out there that know nothing about computers. "Is it supposed to do that?" "Yes, that's normal..." I hope MS is protecting the innocent/ignorant.

[dezekiel]

Win XP's NTFS is a bit different than Win2000's. Ghost or Drive Image 4 cannot read it, so I cannot make a backup of my XP partition. I like backups!

Bloody XP 2505 is still making me run the Networking Wizzard everytime I reboot or it locks out all my shares. I don't reboot too much on that computer so its cool. I know its getting back at me for running that crack program on it.

Dan

[wbierman]

Just use Windows Backup found in Accessories> System Tools>

I have done 2 installs of XP RC1. One booting from the bruned CD and the other as a dual boot with Win2K Server. Each was different is subtle ways. Both are running fine. Both are connecting to my network via Active Directory. Timing both shutdowns... both are at 10 seconds. I especially like ripping CDs and the file system putting the ablum cover art on the folders automatically. Very cool.

[fizler]

toms hardware gets tons of free stuff, 6x 1.4 amd's at onces.. that was when they were first releasted at over 400$ a pop...

winxp looks really cool, but it seems a little ahead of its time. with most people not looking to spend 2000$+ on a 1.7ghz p4 from bestbuy. i know everyone on this board could buy there own for alot less, but lets face it, we are the smart ones.

[wbierman]

I just threw out an Ad from Dell advertising a 1GHz P4 for only $799. Granted it is "light" on memory @ only 64Megs, but for a quick $60 bucks for memory, it is a great machine.

The only folks I know who want a 1.4GHz T-bird or a 1.7GHz P4 are gamers and us folks crunching in the various DC projects. Most folks really don't need the screaming machines for AOL and email!

[Jodie]

Originally posted by wbierman
Personally, I can't wait to get this for my Mom. That will put an end to all the phone calls asking what this message is or what that means, etc etc.



PC Anywhere, Elsewhere, comm2comm, what's the open-source one that starts with a 'V'? Slips my mind at the moment - but even more stable than PC Anywhere... Microsoft doesn't need to reinvent that wheel. . .

[dnar]

VNC
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc

[Jodie]

Originally posted by wbierman
Listen up kiddies....

Speaking of credible info... has anyone ever come accross any hardware review site that actually reported on a MoBo dead out of the box? Have any of them done a 30-60-90 day report on how the various boards have held up under 24/7 loads? All I have read is there are slight differences between the various boards like speed or ease of overclocking. Nothing long term....


-will

I can speak VERY highly of SuperMicro. We've had zero problems with their boxes and/or mobos.... Over the last couple years, we've built hundreds of them, all high-uptime-high-availability servers. I had one DOA (pack-and-ship problem) and one die (board d-lam'd. They re-designed the board when we complained, and replaced all of that model that we had out in the field, at no cost to us. They even covered drop-shipping to our clients...) Good folk.

[wbierman]

Jodie-

"Microsoft doesn't need to reinvent that wheel. . ."

They have just made it better. Have you tried it yet?

[Jodie]

Yup. Slower than proverbial dog snot...

VNC! That's what I needed five hours of sleep to think of... Have you tried VNC? Free, open source, runs cross platform. I don't think it really NEEDS to be improved upon...

[Jodie]

Originally posted by dnar
VNC
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc

Oops, didn't see that Dnar had replied to it. Of course he'd know, Mr. PenguinPower...

[wbierman]

Hmmm... I thought dog snot was pretty fast. I guess you had to be there...

[Jodie]

Originally posted by wbierman
Hmmm... I thought dog snot was pretty fast. I guess you had to be there...

Naw, it just kinda trickles-out slowly... An apt description, really, of what a GUI does to an otherwise awesome machine...

[wbierman]

How is the weather in Folsum? Our natural AC kicked in late today now in the 60s. I have relatives in Sacto. They live on 44th Ave. and else where.

[Jodie]

It's been hot. We're approaching the dog-days of summer. Our hottest time of the year. Been 95-100F (35-38C) for a bit now.

No humidity though. I'm taking a vacation to Miami and then on to my place in Belize so I can get some of the humidity again. I miss it.

[Jodie]

Just noticed you're over in oakland... Used to live there for awhile, while I was going to Cal.

[wbierman]

Cal... I went to Stanford. My wife did Cal, we're a mixed marraige! We do the Big Game every year. One of our dear friends is a Vice Chancelor at Cal.

My brother-n-law was commuting to Folsom every day until he got laid off 2 weeks ago. He worked for a rag, Government Technology.

[Jodie]

GIVE 'EM THE AXE!

[Jodie]

Sorry to hear about the layoff. It's getting brutal out there.

I did a couple masters at Cal. Bizzarre school. Did some of my time at MIT. Even more bizzare.

[wbierman]

1-800-BEAT-CAL

[Jodie]

So suddenly it makes a lot of sense that we go at it over the Windows vs Linux thing. We're just carrying on in the traditions of our respective schools. A long and glorious tradition!:D

[wbierman]

Exactly... just keep the freakin band off the field....

[Jodie]

If you're still there and receiving email updates on this topic -

Can you tell me how to set the workgroup name under W2K-AS? :confused:

Thanks, as always!:D

[wbierman]

Workgroup or Domain?

[wbierman]

Workgroup=

Start> Settings> Network and Dial-up Connections>

highlight Local Area Connection then select Advanced from the Tool Menu then Select Network Identification....

[Jodie]

Workgroup... I'm just setting-up Samba so I can use kdfold. I have 1 '98 machine, 1 NT4 machine and 1 AS machine - wanted to put them all on the kdfold. I can see the '98 and NT4, but not the AS... The directory I want on it is shared... 6 CPU's being monitored now, dozen or so more to go! :rolleyes: Seems like a pretty decent tool, though...

[wbierman]

If you want to "see" content besides just a machine name in Network Neighborhood, then just create a new share if you want to share a drive or folder.

[Jodie]

actually, kinda weird - I can see all the machines in different workgroups when I browse the entire network, but not that one. Sigh...

[wbierman]

The tool works well for me!

[Jodie]

thanks! Scurrying downstairs, let you know in a moment if that helped!

[wbierman]

How many workgroups?

You only want one. Make sure they all have the same name.

[wbierman]

Oh, make sure Netbois is turned on or you will not be able to browse to the machine. In XP it is turned off by default. Thats new for Windoes!

[Jodie]

well, after changing the workgroup name (thank you!) and rebooting (hasn't MS learned that lesson yet? I can change the workgroup name in samba and click refresh and poof! it's changed...), the rest of the network can't see it, it can't see the rest of the network shares. Shrug. Worry about it later. . . (thank you though!) I'd rather get my less-tight kernel installed and get the tbirds on the monitor... That machine is my slowest boxxen, so it's not all that critical to watch it.

[Jodie]

oops! Good point - well, the low-fat Double Chocolate Chunk Chocolate Moose downstairs is calling me anyway.. I hear they'll charge you if you don't answer! So I might as well go see if I can figure out how to turn it on...

[Jodie]

Just think - all of these windows questions, I'm sure helping you get your post-count up! Watch-out, Siggy! Here comes Wbierman!:rolleyes: :D

[wbierman]

You gals chat it up pretty good!

[wbierman]

"Double Chocolate Chunk Chocolate Moose" How can that taste great and be Low Fat? Those kinds of deserts are supposed to to be real with fat included. Can I get an amen???

[Jodie]

AMEN!

[wylie]

Originally posted by wbierman
Oh, make sure Netbois is turned on or you will not be able to browse to the machine. In XP it is turned off by default. Thats new for Windoes!
I would have thought this a good thing....cant you use netbeui in winxp instead??

[Bruce]

Originally posted by wbierman
Oh, make sure Netbois is turned on or you will not be able to browse to the machine. In XP it is turned off by default. Thats new for Windoes!

Originally posted by wylie
I would have thought this a good thing....cant you use netbeui in winxp instead??

I'm confused.:confused:

If you're talking about the protocol NetBEUI -- which was the default M$ protocol in Win3.1 and has been turned on by default ever since, I think it is a good thing that it defaults to off.

All your machines need to speak the same protocol, but the first thing I do (a small Win9x home LAN), is add TCP/IP and remove NetBEUI. In this environment, several protocol choices will work, but NetBEUI has so many security holes that I figure even if there is (slightly) more processing overhead, there is less traffic and less risk. Besides, I get better support from many applications.

In a bigger environment (like our company LAN/WAN), there are many other advantages -- effective routing, for one -- some types of lost connection recovery, for another.

At home, I need TCP/IP anyway to talk to my router and the net, so why carry two protocol stacks?

So am I to understand M$ has finally seen the light?:rolleyes: :D :rolleyes:

[wylie]

I'm confused too.....still learning here and grateful to win gurus who can help.

I find it a hellova lot harder to share printers etc without netbeui on a tcp/ip network. I was of the mind that netbios was the one with the securitry issues. If someone can tell me a better way to share then please do! I have a cable modem running into my hub so any protocol installed will affect internet connections as well.

[Bruce]

Originally posted by wylie
I find it a hellova lot harder to share printers etc without netbeui on a tcp/ip network. I was of the mind that netbios was the one with the securitry issues. If someone can tell me a better way to share then please do! I have a cable modem running into my hub so any protocol installed will affect internet connections as well.

I have a DSL gateway -- which just appears as another station on my LAN -- so it is very likely similar to your cable modem. Some of them are connected to a single machine, some connect through a router. That is an important distinction which changes some of what you need.

Initially I set up netbui on all my machines. (Before I even considered broadband). I got shares to work. Then I realized I needed TCP/IP to make either ICS or a router to work so I started running both protocols. Then I realized there was no advantage to running both, and I converted everything over to TCP/IP. I'm very happy I did.

Some things are very slightly different if you're running a centralized DNS server or if you're running peer-to-peer, which I'm doing. It all works, though, except if you have Win95 and still need to update all the networking patches. (I just did that for a friend last weekend. It's a real pita. Should have upgraded her to Win98 or better yet 98SE.)

I did go through some headaches when I forgot to set the workgroup -- some machines could see each other -- others could see another group but couldn't see the first group. And sometimes. when you add a new machine, it can (temporarily) be seen by only part of the network -- Just wait (maybe as much as an hour) until they pass around the information about the new machine.

I never had an explicit problem with shares, however. Once you can see the machine, the shares were all visible.

I take that back. I had a real problem with a hidden share (you know, the ones ending in "$"). Getting the new share to be recoginzed by a Win95 machine was a real pain because I already had a shortcut to another share and it refused to pick up the newly published share. I finally rebooted (which, on principle, I avoid.)

[wbierman]

The two of you are confused...

Netbeui is very old and secure (it is NON - routable or invisable to the Internet)

Netbios is old and unsecure. It is jumping up and down saying, "I'm here, I'm here." It also handles the "browser " function.

All MS operating systems prior to Windows XP... Netbois is turned ON by default. (It is bound to the Network card by default) In XP it is truned OFF by default. With Netbois turned off a machine will be invisable to Network Neighborhood. So if you have a network made up of XP machines, by default they will not exist in Network Neighborhood. This was done to secure peeps with a single machine at home. By default their machine is "not there" or in "stealth" mode by http://www.grc.com standards.

This is not a problem in Win 2000 Networks that are running Active Directory because the XP clients recources can be "shared" via publishing in Active Directory. Thus Netbios can be turned off and left off while in Active Directory mode.

Printers will be harder to share if all machines have Netbios truned off. Workarounds are turn Netbios on the machine that has a printer connected or share via a print server in which case the printer is identified via TCP/IP.

[Jodie]

And throw a firewall in place that steps on it coming from the outside or going to the outside. Also masquarade your network. The odds of penetration are then VERY low.

Good description, Will!!!

Speaking of that... I've got samba running nearly across my network of genome machines now. I have *one* working kernel and smb.conf. I have no idea how I got it working last night. I couldn't get any other working. So I tar'd up the whole kit-and-caboodle and moved it to an ftp server on my network. When I untar it and start it, the whole world is beautiful. How's that for blind, dumb LUCK.

I hate non-repeatability... :rolleyes: :(

[wylie]

So how does winXP share on a say small home workgroup?

[wbierman]

Thankyou Jodie


simple... just turn Netbios back on....