Custom built Linux distro

[phil]

Well, I stumbled upon a nice distro called Gentoo linux. Basically, you download a boot disk and make your configuration options. Then everything is downloaded and custom compiled for your individual machine. The kernal is the latest version (2.4.19-r1). It also has a sort of ports system similar to freeBSD....when you want a piece of software installed, it only takes one command and the source file and all dependencies are downloaded, custom compiled and installed so is fully optimised for your platform. Only the bare minimum of software is installed keeping the install light. Just use the ports system to install the packages that you want -very neat!!

I am just installing it now and I'll report back later (at work in a few hours :rolleyes: )

Have a look here: http://www.gentoo.org/index.html

[Benjamino]

I read the site... sounds cool as hell. But! It does not sound good for a novice. Especially one like me. ;) :rolleyes:
I don't think I'll take a stab at this one... :o
Besides, you haven't been on-line all day... did you get it running on that machine?
:confused:

[phil]

Hehe, I would hardly call myself an expert! The way I learn is to jump in at the deep end and hope I don't sink :D

I had to leave the install at that same point as a family problem came up before I went to work. Just got in now, so will have a few beers and go to bed. I'll finish the install tomorrow morning before work.

Seriously though, so far it hasn't been difficult. Just follow the instructions....if I can do that, anybody can :baa: :baa:

[Rizzo]

How big are all the parts to download? Would it be possible on 56k dialup that disconnects every 2 hours?

[phil]

It depends on how much you are going to install. The boot image is 16Mb that will need to be burnt to cd. After that, you specify all your options to compile your custom kernel and get a very basic install. At this point you have a working system, but no gui etc. You can then download and install packages at your leisure. If you want to install everything, then it will be a hefty download.

[phil]

OK, things are looking very cool now. Everything is working....I have the custom kernel and XWindows system up and running and KDE3 running at 1600x1200@85Hz. Everything is working fine....just need to add the packages I use. G@H is now downloading so business is back to normal :D I think this has been a good experience for me - I have learnt a lot about the system in general.

[Ercewee]

Originally posted by phil
Hehe, I would hardly call myself an expert! The way I learn is to jump in at the deep end and hope I don't sink :D


Originally posted by phil
OK, things are looking very cool now. Everything is working....

Looks like you learned how to swim ;)

[phil]

Originally posted by Ercewee


Looks like you learned how to swim ;)


:D - A quick pic of my new desktop: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/phil.harling/images/gentoo.jpg (~330k)

[Azzuron]

KDE3 looks pretty nice. Umm, so i guess they mirror all the software on their servers? it would be near impossible to search it off the net.

(I havnt looked at the site yet...so sorry if these questions are answered at that point)

Do you actually configure configure the kernel like you do when compiling your own?

You can actually just enter a command and it will download say X-Chat... or Gnome and install it for you? flawlessly?

This is amazing in my book. Ill look into it later when i have some more time.

[phil]

Originally posted by Azzuron
KDE3 looks pretty nice. Umm, so i guess they mirror all the software on their servers? it would be near impossible to search it off the net.

(I havnt looked at the site yet...so sorry if these questions are answered at that point)

Do you actually configure configure the kernel like you do when compiling your own?

You can actually just enter a command and it will download say X-Chat... or Gnome and install it for you? flawlessly?

This is amazing in my book. Ill look into it later when i have some more time.


Yup, the software is on their servers and also numerous mirrors so if the package program can't connect to the main server, it will try others.

The kernel is configured in exactly the same way as when you configure a custom kernel (make menuconfig)...you then move this kernel into the boot partition and setup grub/lilo to point to it.

The package management system is awesome! For example, upon the initial boot after installing the kernel you are left at a CLI login prompt. There is no X-Windows/ window manager installed so you have to do it yourself. I wanted KDE3, so I just logged in and typed "emerge kde" which contacted the software server and checked my machine for dependencies. It then downloaded the source for every dependency (including X-Windows) and then compiled and installed it. It took a long time to compile as they are very large packages. After that, all I did was setup the X-Windows system with xconfigurator and set KDE to be my default window manager and to automatically load at startup. Then I rebooted and up came KDE3. I then installed XChat with "emerge XChat" which checked for dependencies and downloaded the source before compiling and installing...all automatically :cool: :baa:

[Azzuron]

Damn man, thats amazing, so you had to install the actual kernel, it doesnt automaticly move/setup the booter? I wish i had another PC...i would really like to try this. Do they keep the latest latest version of programs? i read that they have an updater for your packages... i like wine. i am curious if wine is one of them packs they have... i didnt see a list of availible packages on their site. :\ How about staroffice? does that even come in source?

Thanks for taking the plunge on this phil...im really interested.

ps, as for a partitioner/formater? thats on the boot cd you create right?

[phil]

Everything you need is on the boot disk....fdisk, text editors etc. They have a really nice help file on the disk and their site to get you started and you really are starting from scratch. You have to do everything from setting up networking, partitioning your disks, moving your kernel and installing the boot loader. Everything is documented and is easy to follow....the satisfaction I gained from getting this working was immense.

Current package info is here: http://www.gentoo.org/index-packages.html - wine is there and is the version from 11th April 2002 so is pretty recent :)

This is the fastest and slickest distro I have used as there is nothing installed that you don't need....no useless services, no useless packages etc. Anything extra that you want installed needs to be done yourself, but makes for a very optimised (everything is custom compiled), light weight OS. I am very impressed with it's performance, so much so that I don't think I'll be using another distro again. My RedHat IRC server is just begging to be swapped to Gentoo. :D Oh yeah, it looks so sweet with the mosfet widgets applied to KDE3: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/phil.harling/images/gentoo2.png :cool:

[Azzuron]

a review i read for gentoo said that kde3 is so increadibly slow it was pathetic, even in gentoo which made it faster he said that he had to say it like "KDE3 is not as slow as with some other distros" hows it feel to you? is it spunky? ;)

My expereince:

I tried gento. i got it all installed...i got to the kernel. and all hell broke loose... its the newest kernel 2.4.19, so i was like what ever...and i started to configure it. i configured it like i configured all my older kernels on redhat. heres what we get...

Problem A): network card aint supported? (Red hat liked it pretty well)
Problem B): non of the 3 network cards i had are working?

Problem C): seems i cant find the right way to compile File systems into the kernel. vfat wouldnt go... apparently swap wasnt working either, it could never unmount it right...

Problem D): none of my modules work.

Problem E): even compiling them into the kernel didnt do anything.

so...what did i do wrong?

[Miles]

Hey Phil,

Does Gentoo come with Emacs or just pico. I haven't used pico before. Is it hard to learn?

[Azzuron]

Pico/nano the clone they use for the install anyway, is very easy, i didnt even need to look up commands.

[eldiablo]

Phil, would you say the documentation was good enough for a linux beginner to be able to install it?

Azzuron, have you made any progress with the installation?

The concept looks very slick. I have lots of bandwidth, so that's not a problem...

[Azzuron]

Its step by step command by command. very easy to follow. Just be sure to read all the notes between the stesps (above and bellow) before you do the step...the author...was a little strange in his layout. but, no i havnt fixed it i have gotten some ideas, but i havnt had an opportunity to run through it again. You should really get some general experience under redhat or something i would think first... just so your framiliar with the way things work. If you have problematic hardware with redhat, its good experience ;)

[phil]

I agree with Azz....although the documentation is good, I wouldn't recommend it to anybody who doesn't feel comfortable with a normal Linux distro. I wouldn't say I am an expert (far from it) but I can customise, compile and install my own kernel and software etc. Being able to use the command line is a bonus as well :) My next challenge will be to install FreeBSD. This is a "proper" UNIX and uses a similar package management tool as Gentoo. The difference being that FreeBSD is centrally controlled and as such, all software in the ports tree has to be verified by the FreeBSD staff before use. This ensures system stability and compatibility etc. Just look at the top uptimes around the net...FreeBSD/OpenBSD are usually at the top of the list!

[Azzuron]

I have been considering freebsd also. I know a few people who use it, and it seems like a good thing. But, only giving it a try will tell.

[eldiablo]

Well, learning linux with something like Mandrake is like learning to drive with a car that has an automatic transmission, anti-lock brakes, traction control, etc. I think I might learn more if I have to do things manually. I do have some Unix experience, and quite a bit of computer experience in general. So, I think I will try Gentoo, starting this weekend. Right now I am reading "Running Linux", published by O'Reilly (http://linux.oreilly.com/).

[phil]

Cool, that was the way I started to learn. Just jump in head first.....if it breaks, reinstall and try again :)

[Azzuron]

I wish i had that option. :(

Seriously, unless you have compiled and configured a kernel before, i wouldnt go into it without reading alot about the kernel, and knowing your hardware inside and out. (I think that was my problem i put in some features i didnt have and i think it broke). Anyway good luck. Let me know how it comes out :) Ill try it again here one day. just a matter of when ill be able. Maybe after i get all my papers in ill make aghost image of my main drive and store it on an extra partition, or on an extra drive...so that i dont have to totaly redo windows. i done that to much this month already :p

[Lazarus]

If you wanted to dabble a bit, you could use a Mobile HDD rack. If you have 2 HDDs, place them in the caddies of the Mobile Rack, then when you want to change OS's, you just change the caddy.

(it means buying 2 racks & only using 1 of them, but using both of the caddies, but they're cheap enough so that if you wanted to you could have as many as you had OS's).
:)

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say - I find that I get a bit incoherent sometimes. :confused:

[Azzuron]

Yes, i know what you mean, but, also its even cheaper yet is just partitions, as you have to reboot. i want a way around this, which means i need multiple pcs :(

[eldiablo]

Originally posted by eldiablo
Well, learning linux with something like Mandrake is like learning to drive with a car that has an automatic transmission, anti-lock brakes, traction control, etc. I think I might learn more if I have to do things manually. I do have some Unix experience, and quite a bit of computer experience in general. So, I think I will try Gentoo, starting this weekend. Right now I am reading "Running Linux", published by O'Reilly (http://linux.oreilly.com/).

Gentoo and KDE are now up and running. :cool: It took me a few days to get this far. Not too bad I guess, considering I'm a noob and I had to work through a few <cough>bugs</cough>. Everything seems to be running smoothly, except it won't configure my nic automatically on boot (I have to do it manually). Still working on that. I don't think I have xfree86 quite right either, as the top of my screen is a little "warped". But, I'm definitely learning a lot. :)

Phil, what are those "mosfet" things you referred to?

[phil]

Nice going Eldiablo!! Welcome to the club :cool: The mosfet liquid widgets is just a cool theme for KDE which gives some nice effects.

Open a command line as root and type:

emerge mosfet-liquid-widgets

This will download and install them. You can now change the settings from the KDE control panel. Go here: http://www.mosfet.org/liquid.html to see more of what they can do :)

[Azzuron]

I like gnome. :P

[Benjamino]

Mine freaked out when I went to compile the new kernel... whatever it is in my system that I thought hated Red Hat, hates Gentoo as well. :(
It has something to do with the dependencies... I "think". But I really don't know what.

[eldiablo]

Did you have the right type of processor selected?

[Benjamino]

It was a K7 last time I checked. ;) And I turned off SMP.
I tried down-clocking and stuff... no go. This has been my gripe all along.
http://www.thegenomecollective.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2904

[eldiablo]

Hm, you shouldn't have to do anything special for that processor.

Have you tried:

1. strip down the hardware to bare essentials.
2. set your bios to all defaults. no overclocking, no high performance memory options, etc. also make sure you have plug and play os = no.
3. start from scratch

[Benjamino]

All but the Non P@P OS... could that be a problem? Could the fact that the default kernel is setup for a P!!! be a problem either? I assumed that it just wouldn't take full advantage of the abilities of the XP.

[Azzuron]

you can set your processor type in the kernel config i sugest picking your processor from the list. its quite ... easy. :)

[Benjamino]

Yeah... I did! ;):o
The problem comes in when I am done configuring the kernel... I use the "make dep" command and it gets about done when it tells me that there were a few errors. When I go to the next step it finalizes my assumption that whatever the errors were, they need to be corrected first. I have a copy of the correct config, can I send that to someone and have them compile the kernel and send it back to me? That might be a dumb question... :o

[Azzuron]

where do the errors occure? it ususally tells you what module it happens in.

[Benjamino]

I bet that would be important to remember, but I have no idea to be honest... :D
Also, I realized that I had nuked the thing so I lost that config file anyway.

BTW: Did you know that fdisk on the 98se bootdisk can restore a MBR for Win 2k and kill Grub in one fell swoop? ;) :D

[phil]

The i686 (PIII) setting should work great with your XP.

[Azzuron]

hah, yea i did. i had to do that to fix my friends computer. he had linux on it and did some partition resizing... well needless to say, grub didnt like it.

[Miles]

Oh, Oh, Gentoo gives me a "kernel panic" during install on my athlon 750@1060-a7v test box. The mini iso checksum is o.k. Anyone else have trouble with an overclocked box? Mandrake 8.0, 8.1 and FreeBSD run fine on this box.:confused:

[Azzuron]

Tux time got some new style huh? Not to bad :)

[eldiablo]

Originally posted by Miles
Oh, Oh, Gentoo gives me a "kernel panic" during install on my athlon 750@1060-a7v test box. The mini iso checksum is o.k. Anyone else have trouble with an overclocked box? Mandrake 8.0, 8.1 and FreeBSD run fine on this box.:confused:

I've had trouble in the past installing Redhat on an overclocked machine. You are overclocked quite a bit. That is most likely the problem. Gentoo's defaults for compiling may be a little more aggressive than Mandrake's, but I haven't read much about that yet.