Drive-by trolling [Archive] - The Genome Collective

Chas

26th July 2001, 03:51

Originally posted by wylie
I have never been to the US but will one day. I must confess the reason I want to is to see for myself whether it is as the media would portray it.

I have seen how Australia is misrepresented by some of the disgustingly embarrasing tourists we inflict on Europe and shudder to think that entire cultures judge my country by them.

We have the same problem with brits on the piss abroad!!!

It gives such a sordid impression of England especially when England play abroad.

The trouble is english fans become a target when abroad for football matches from all the local hooligans and they just cannot resist a bloody punch up when they have had a drink.....

The States we have visited three times, and i love the place, but the only problem is that the news media only reflect what goes on in America and very little coverage of anywhere else....

I'm sure a lot of Americans still believe London is always shrouded in fog and we all talk like the royals when i was in the good ole USA a few people thought we was Aussies (perish the thought) :D :D

dnar

26th July 2001, 05:54

TDKozan

26th July 2001, 09:36

Okay, Gun-toting, Texas Democrat Troll-boy, figure this position out:

Kyoto bites, Abortion is okay, Taxation blows, Elective euthanasia is okay, Welfare stinks, unrestricted immigration rocks, and what part of "shall not be infringed" don't they get?

Strange enough for you?

TK ;>

Stilgar

26th July 2001, 20:37

Originally posted by LBaker
I'd have to say I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum from ya Stilgar. I'm an independant leaning to the right. I've got big problems with the democrats. Minor issues with the republicans.

LOL I've got big problems with republicans. Minor Issues with democrats.

Stilgar

26th July 2001, 20:55

Originally posted by MikeTimbers
Clearly all the members know how to connect to the Internet. My suggestion is to use it. I regularly read newspapers from around the world and it is amazing to see your own country through other's eyes.

I work in England with people from all over the world including many Americans, many of whom have never been outside their own country before. I would hazard a guess that many of them are shocked at the way that America is seen by others.

Reading articles to me don't quite give the flavor as a good chat with someone. Some of the stuff I see on news I would hope other countries would not think all think or act that way. News either seems to showcase the worst or the best of us. And most of the time the ratings dictate to show the worst. BTW I can sometimes show some of the worst traits. If you saw a movie with some drunk redneck you saw what I was like when I used to drink. Bars were for fighting.

Stilgar

26th July 2001, 21:05

Originally posted by TDKozan
Okay, Gun-toting, Texas Democrat Troll-boy, figure this position out:

Kyoto bites, Abortion is okay, Taxation blows, Elective euthanasia is okay, Welfare stinks, unrestricted immigration rocks, and what part of "shall not be infringed" don't they get?

Strange enough for you?

TK ;>

Kind of strange. Sitting here thinking, right, no left, no right, nope I'm not sure.:D

(BTW don't tote guns, never did get my concealed license. But like building black powder kits. And Texas we need to use our escape clause. The thought of a independent country of Texas would rock. Long time democrat and Standing proudly up and defending the rights of trolls every where.)

stall6g

26th July 2001, 21:06

I'm more middle of the road with a tendency towards the Democratic party but I have issues with both parties which need a major overhauling IMHO. Coming from Texas during the presidential race I was definitely not impressed with Bush from first hand experience as my Governor. Bush was great at surrounding himself with people who knew the issues while he, in my eyes, is the proverbial puppet. I few watts short of a dim light bulb if you get my meaning. Gore on the other hand was the exact opposite. No charisma but knew the issues but took those issues to the extreme. That and he got associated with ol' Billy Bob who doesn't exactly have the greatest rep.

Being married to a Brit I'm constantly reminded that the American way isn't the only way and while I appreciate other cultures and viewpoints there's nothing like pride in one's nation. Am I biased? Sure I am, I wouldn't have devoted most of my adult life in military service to this country if I wasn't proud of it. Yes it isn't perfect nor is any country for that matter. I love to follow and discuss different aspects of politics but i've learned that many people will not change their positions but you can get them to see things from the other side so that they know where you are coming from. Enough rambling and I won't go into specifics since discussing politics and religion inevitably wind up with neither party changing their position and can lead to some hurt feelings.

Can you tell I was a Political Science major??:D

Stilgar

26th July 2001, 21:35

Originally posted by wylie
I have never been to the US but will one day. I must confess the reason I want to is to see for myself whether it is as the media would portray it.

I have seen how Australia is misrepresented by some of the disgustingly embarrasing tourists we inflict on Europe and shudder to think that entire cultures judge my country by them.

Even though a Texan I don't wear a hat. Do put on boots but most of the time hikers. And bluejeans are my friends. I walk down my street at night sans gun or knife and don't have problems. (Not the best of neighborhoods) One thing about the U.S. from state to state, city to city all are different. If you do get a chance to come to the U.S. and Texas go to San Marcos, New Braunfels area in Texas. Shows off the better side of Texas (Also fun spot to tube down the river.)

Y'all don't all wear them bush hats?:D

Stilgar

26th July 2001, 21:44

Originally posted by stall6g
I'm more middle of the road with a tendency towards the Democratic party but I have issues with both parties which need a major overhauling IMHO. Coming from Texas during the presidential race I was definitely not impressed with Bush from first hand experience as my Governor. Bush was great at surrounding himself with people who knew the issues while he, in my eyes, is the proverbial puppet. I few watts short of a dim light bulb if you get my meaning. Gore on the other hand was the exact opposite. No charisma but knew the issues but took those issues to the extreme. That and he got associated with ol' Billy Bob who doesn't exactly have the greatest rep.

Being married to a Brit I'm constantly reminded that the American way isn't the only way and while I appreciate other cultures and viewpoints there's nothing like pride in one's nation. Am I biased? Sure I am, I wouldn't have devoted most of my adult life in military service to this country if I wasn't proud of it. Yes it isn't perfect nor is any country for that matter. I love to follow and discuss different aspects of politics but i've learned that many people will not change their positions but you can get them to see things from the other side so that they know where you are coming from. Enough rambling and I won't go into specifics since discussing politics and religion inevitably wind up with neither party changing their position and can lead to some hurt feelings.

Can you tell I was a Political Science major??:D

George W. Bush is no George Bush. I liked the father but don't appreciate the son. George senior had a way about him. And he was taken seriously. I wish the senior would had another term.

Politics don't seem to get as out of hand as some religion talks can.

Medic193

26th July 2001, 21:52

Although most politicians need to be ousted and replaced by normal people with morals I would have to say I'm die hard republican. They are not perfect but I get stressed just thinking about how much I completely disagree with most everything that Democraps (yes I did mean to mispell that) do. Just my .02:D

verT

27th July 2001, 00:00

Sorry Stilgar, I don't talk politics, religion or sex(dirty jokes excused). I used to be a bartender I had some major issues with some customers one night and ended up in a matching set of bracelets. I know it won't get that ugly here but just a rule of mine for the last 8 years or so.

stall6g

27th July 2001, 05:03

Originally posted by Stilgar

If you do get a chance to come to the U.S. and Texas go to San Marcos, New Braunfels area in Texas. Shows off the better side of Texas (Also fun spot to tube down the river.)

I heartily agree with this recommendation and let us not forget the riverwalk in San Antonio and South Padre (a hell of a lot better than Corpus Cristi IMHO).

TDKozan

27th July 2001, 07:39

Originally posted by Stilgar

Kind of strange. Sitting here thinking, right, no left, no right, nope I'm not sure.:D

(BTW don't tote guns, never did get my concealed license. But like building black powder kits. And Texas we need to use our escape clause. The thought of a independent country of Texas would rock. Long time democrat and Standing proudly up and defending the rights of trolls every where.)

L/libertarian. A bunch of nuts who agree to never initiate force, believe that the government that governs least governs best, and are pro-choice on everything. Or to put it another way, "We're all adults here, let's act like it."

Do you hunt with BP or just shoot for pleasure? BP is probably the one thing I haven't tried yet with firearms but given time an an inattentive wife for at least 30 seconds. . .

TK ;>

Stilgar

27th July 2001, 20:06

Originally posted by Medic193
Although most politicians need to be ousted and replaced by normal people with morals I would have to say I'm die hard republican. They are not perfect but I get stressed just thinking about how much I completely disagree with most everything that Democraps (yes I did mean to mispell that) do. Just my .02:D

May sound strange, but my favorite Prez was Carter. One thing you could say about him he did have morals. Followed By Bush senior, (Only thing I thought shady was the Houston Marine/ nafta stuff) followed by Ford, (Yep part timer he could not do much damage.) followed by Nixon. (Something sounds strange here. Top four and three republicans. )

Stilgar

27th July 2001, 20:17

Originally posted by TDKozan

L/libertarian. A bunch of nuts who agree to never initiate force, believe that the government that governs least governs best, and are pro-choice on everything. Or to put it another way, "We're all adults here, let's act like it."

Do you hunt with BP or just shoot for pleasure? BP is probably the one thing I haven't tried yet with firearms but given time an an inattentive wife for at least 30 seconds. . .

TK ;>

Right now just shoot for pleasure. I like more then anything the hands on wood working associated with them. I do need/want a motorized checkering tool, I've done three by hand. Even though they come pre cut I like to personalize them and do some extra just to dress them up. Up to 7 right now with one in the working on stage. If you do get one just remember no CVA brand.

wylie

27th July 2001, 21:56

Originally posted by Stilgar

Even though a Texan I don't wear a hat. Do put on boots but most of the time hikers. And bluejeans are my friends. I walk down my street at night sans gun or knife and don't have problems. (Not the best of neighborhoods) One thing about the U.S. from state to state, city to city all are different. If you do get a chance to come to the U.S. and Texas go to San Marcos, New Braunfels area in Texas. Shows off the better side of Texas (Also fun spot to tube down the river.)

Y'all don't all wear them bush hats?:D

The comment about being able to walk down the street without a gun or knife surprises me. To carry one here in public could get you a few years in the slammer, if you survive the Tactical Response Groups disarming of you. Are guns really a big part of US culture? Again, here we are led to believe every father has a pistol under his pillow "to protect his house" - a concept which scares the crap out of me.

.....and no....we dont wear those bush hats....:)
farmers and stockmen may but no human being alive today has ever seen or heard of anyone putting corks under the brim to keep the flies off...:D

Stilgar

28th July 2001, 00:31

Originally posted by wylie

The comment about being able to walk down the street without a gun or knife surprises me. To carry one here in public could get you a few years in the slammer, if you survive the Tactical Response Groups disarming of you. Are guns really a big part of US culture? Again, here we are led to believe every father has a pistol under his pillow "to protect his house" - a concept which scares the crap out of me.

.....and no....we dont wear those bush hats....:)
farmers and stockmen may but no human being alive today has ever seen or heard of anyone putting corks under the brim to keep the flies off...:D

It really should not scare anyone. I have not had any kind of violence affect myself or my family. The drivers in the U.S. are something to be feared though. But now, I would probably scare any sane person if I strapped on all my guns and they saw me. The U.S. has a mix of all of the above as far as gun ownership goes. You got the anti-guns, don't have a gun but don't care if others have, the I bought a gun 10 years ago and have not looked at since, the hunters, the sporters, the personal protection folks, the your un-american if you don't have one, and the "I can supply a medium/large sized country with arms"ones. My son-in-law never goes anywhere with out his pistol. I would not carry one unless going to the range or the country. I don't keep a loaded gun around the house, in fact I have my clips and bolts in a safe. I've got a few friends who have dealers licenses which allow them a little more leeway in purchasing guns and ammo. (They mainly buy ammo in bulk) And one has a loaded gun in every room of his house. (You can never tell when a war may break out.) Different states have different laws concerning guns. Texas is probably one of the more armed states. Probably due to hunting and just I guess background or culture. Everyone knows all Texans are cowboys. :D We have do a concealed weapon law. If you go thru a background check and take a class you can carry a concealed weapon. Kind of a strange setup if you take the class with a revolver you can't carry a semi if you take the class with a semi you can carry either. It has to be concealed if it shows you can get in big trouble. You can't carry a gun in a establishment that has higher then ?% of alchohol sales. (Can't remember the exact percentage.) Hospitals, government offices, airports, etc. You know thinking about it, it does probably sound pretty wild. But then again talk to someone from the mideast and we are tame. ;)

wbierman

28th July 2001, 04:39

Having hunted animals and men... don't much see the need for guns anymore. Texas is closer to the Wild, Wild West than anywhere else in the country.

Hell, maybe we all should be packing. Then those two kids in Colorado might have had some resistance from the gun packing school librarians.

Cracks me up to hear the ultra right christian coalition speaking out for the NRA. I guess when christ said to turn the other cheek he really meant lock and load!

Or rabbit hunters afraid of losing their AK47s...

wylie

28th July 2001, 05:21

Without meaning to give the NRA ammo...Australia has some of the strictest gun laws in the world...yet still has the record for the biggest one-man-fireams-massacre.
Martin Bryant - Port Arthur, Tasmania. From memory about 35 killed.

Stilgar

28th July 2001, 05:28

Watching the news tonite about the griffith 50 calibur. Now that was scary. A kit gun that sold a while back so it did not need serial #'s. Armour peircing bullets and one h*ll of a range. Got to admit I would like to shoot one just to say I had but I just don't see any reason for some one to own one.

stall6g

28th July 2001, 05:35

I saw that special too and it was pretty scary to know that anyone could have bought one. I was fortunate enough to fire a Barret .50cal Sniper rifle during my Active duty days and it was a real kikc in the pants. Absolutely top notch craftsmanship and accuracy. Then again how accurate do you really need to be with a .50cal??;)

Stilgar

28th July 2001, 11:08

Originally posted by stall6g
I saw that special too and it was pretty scary to know that anyone could have bought one. I was fortunate enough to fire a Barret .50cal Sniper rifle during my Active duty days and it was a real kikc in the pants. Absolutely top notch craftsmanship and accuracy. Then again how accurate do you really need to be with a .50cal??;)

The shock wave if it missed would be enough to knock you over. Kind of glad they stopped that one. If it had continued manufacturing it would have been a big problem. Since it was a kit I'm assuming it had some pretty slack sales rules.

Stilgar

28th July 2001, 11:24

Originally posted by wylie
Without meaning to give the NRA ammo...Australia has some of the strictest gun laws in the world...yet still has the record for the biggest one-man-fireams-massacre.
Martin Bryant - Port Arthur, Tasmania. From memory about 35 killed.

Adding a little toward the nra side I don't think harder gun laws would help much. It may help in some cases but then you could say the same thing about road laws. If someone wants to cause mayham they can do the same as McViegh. I do think we (U.S.) need to enforce our laws we have. We are lax on enforcement all over. That to me is the main problem here. I still see kids in the back of pickup trucks driving down the freeway. One thing I would not mind would be education classes for new buyers. I did look thru my son-in-laws book some and picked up some good info on state laws.

randycw

28th July 2001, 11:27

I guess my point of view is influenced by my location. Wyoming has the fewest gun laws in the United States, and I am glad for it! I own many different firearms from the small (22 revolver) to the huge (50 BMG) and many many in between: in Stiglar's mind I might be "one who could supply arms to a small country".

Why do I own all of these guns? MAINLY BECAUSE I CAN! I believe that is what sets the United States apart from most countries -- the freedom we are given. I also own many of them as collectors items (donated to the Museum in Douglas,WY Jesse James revolvers). I like the idea of being free enough to chose wether or not to buy something likes this. I like that my neighbor CAN'T decide this for me.

Cracks me up to hear the ultra right christian coalition speaking out for the NRA. I guess when christ said to turn the other cheek he really meant lock and load!

I am not sure how you jump from supporting the NRA to lock and load. The logic here is flawed IMO. There are many folks who own guns AND support the NRA, but it CANNOT be said that they have also killed someone or have looked to kill someone! So again I don't see how you can say if A then B (A=NRA support, B=lock and load) Just as you cannot logically say that because I disagree with your statement then I must be ultra right chistian. I merely think that the statement was false and wished to point out the flawed logic used to create the statement. Why that is so important to me is that I teach a logic class at a community college NOT because of some religious issue.

Sorry for the long post. :Redneck mode off -- for now:

Stilgar

28th July 2001, 16:35

Hey Randy, I'm getting closer to arm a small nation. (At least in Black Powder) Got 7 black powders (2- rifles, 5 pistols) , 3 cartridge. (1 rifle, 1 pistol, 1 shotgun)
What kind of pistols are those? Or do you have a link to any pictures?

randycw

28th July 2001, 17:49

Sorry no links to pictures... maybe sometime in the future (looking at getting a digital carmera).

Let's see for pistols I have: .22 Colt Derringer (2 of them with sequential serial numbers 114 and 115), Glock 21 tricked out for competition matches, Ruger RedHawk .44mag, Desert Eagle 50AE, and Freedom Arms 454 Cussal. These are some of my prized ones, have several other misc. pistol though. As for the ones in the museum those are Colt 45s. Very nice engravings on them, my great grandfather rode with Jesse for a time and the pistols got passed down to me through my grandfather.

As for rifles: Sharps 45 (replica unfortunately), Remington 700 BDL 300 WinMag, Ruger MKII 300 RemMag, Ruger MKII 30-06, Winchester Model 19 (was my grandfather's first rifle), Remington 50BMG, Thompson Center .50, Winchester .243, and the list goes on.

Last year I had the government call to check out a few things because they FELT that I had made too many firearms purchases for the year. :mad: I guess this is why I get so stirred up over gun control.

Anyway most of these rarely get out of the safe, and even rarer still get shot. I tend to shoot my bows far more now -- at least I haven't gotten any calls as to the number of bows I have purchased in the last few years. ;)

Stilgar

28th July 2001, 21:01

Originally posted by randycw

Last year I had the government call to check out a few things because they FELT that I had made too many firearms purchases for the year. :mad: I guess this is why I get so stirred up over gun control.

Anyway most of these rarely get out of the safe, and even rarer still get shot. I tend to shoot my bows far more now -- at least I haven't gotten any calls as to the number of bows I have purchased in the last few years. ;)

That would tend to make someone edgy. One of my uncles used to have a machine shop in his garage and had a visit from them. Actually a couple.

TDKozan

28th July 2001, 21:17

Originally posted by Stilgar

If you do get one just remember no CVA brand.

What do you recommend that's available in .50 or larger with a left-side lock? Now that I've shamed two of my friends into buying their own safes, I've got a bit more room for tools/toys. . .

TK ;>

Stilgar

28th July 2001, 23:26

Originally posted by TDKozan

What do you recommend that's available in .50 or larger with a left-side lock? Now that I've shamed two of my friends into buying their own safes, I've got a bit more room for tools/toys. . .

TK ;>

Thompson Center is a nice rifle. Got a 54 caliber Hawkins thats sweet. And I believe they do make lefties.

wylie

28th July 2001, 23:29

Man its so weird hearing people talk like this (not passing morals - you've heard all the arguments before I dare say), just weird.
Do you have to keep your weapons secured in a gun safe or can you just stick 'em in the cupboard?

LBaker

28th July 2001, 23:49

Originally posted by wylie
Man its so weird hearing people talk like this (not passing morals - you've heard all the arguments before I dare say), just weird.
Do you have to keep your weapons secured in a gun safe or can you just stick 'em in the cupboard?

I would think it more weird not having the opportunity to own guns. One is responsible for what happens to the firearm. If your kid takes it and goes out and shoots someone, you would be held responsible. If it's taken from a safe, at least you can show you have taken reasonable precautions. From your earlier post, there are many households that have weapons probably more don't. The image of every father with a gun under the pillow is a movie myth. Hell I don't even lock my doors too often. ;)

shubles

29th July 2001, 00:04

this may just be a girly thing...
... but i feel a hell of a lot safer knowing its bloody hard to get a gun in this country.

not safe...but safer.

Stilgar

29th July 2001, 00:08

Originally posted by wylie
Man its so weird hearing people talk like this (not passing morals - you've heard all the arguments before I dare say), just weird.
Do you have to keep your weapons secured in a gun safe or can you just stick 'em in the cupboard?

I guess there are some basic differences in up-bringing. My father hunted and I took part of that with me. I had handling rules as a child and my father was strict on what, where and when I was allowed to shoot or handle the guns. I enjoy running out to the range or country and shooting. Someone who owns a gun is not someone to be feared or has any different morals then anyone else. Guns have been a tool for a long time. Not just in war but in survival of the species. You have to admit good has come with bad along with the gun. The world has waged war over minor issues and idealogies and the gun came along. But it also waged war before the gun. To many people will judge someone in a moment and decide their ideals are worth more then someone elses. It was not the gun what made that decision but the person. Without the gun early exploration whether you consider it good or bad was helped by the gun. It also supplied food to a growing population during the founding of most of the new worlds. It is the individual who decides what use it goes to. I never have liked the comment "If someone wanted to kill they would anyways". But it does have some truth in it. To some I may have some strange morals but I do have some strong ones.

I keep all my bullets and bolts or another part of the guns in a safe. (Just a small safe not a full gun safe) Right now all my kids are grown and I trust them and probably don't need to do it but still keep them locked.

shubles

29th July 2001, 00:19

that just puts things into a different perspective for me.

u need your gun to survive, yes??
i think its safe to say that most of the australian population is not in need of a gun to survive.
and those that do need have a license with a full background check to have one, with stirct laws on storage.
i must say im a little naive about this sort of thing, having not been exposed to guns, but i think its a small minority of people who have illegal weapons for the use of crime.

prove me wrong if i am please fellow ozzies.

Stilgar

29th July 2001, 00:34

Originally posted by shubles
that just puts things into a different perspective for me.

u need your gun to survive, yes??
i think its safe to say that most of the australian population is not in need of a gun to survive.
and those that do need have a license with a full background check to have one, with stirct laws on storage.
i must say im a little naive about this sort of thing, having not been exposed to guns, but i think its a small minority of people who have illegal weapons for the use of crime.

prove me wrong if i am please fellow ozzies.

Nope, don't need them to survive. Just like them. With the black powders I have even thought about joining one of the re-enactment groups. (Get to dress up in Texas revolution style clothes and run around shooting in the air. :D ) We have a background check required also, just to buy one. It may not be as strict as Australia's. (Have not seen your requirements) And some states are getting stiffer storage laws. But the illegal gun user is a problem. That is why I did not care to much for the 50 cal. gun kit. Even though responsible people may get one. With out serial numbers it had a greater chance of misuse.

LBaker

29th July 2001, 00:35

It's like drugs and anything else illegal, If you want something bad enough your going to get it. Crooks have no trouble obtaining weapons! I feel much safer knowing there is a gun in the house. It's also a major deterant. If that burgler knows there is a chance there is a gun in the house he'll think twice before entering.

wylie

29th July 2001, 00:39

To get a firearms licence here you need a full police clearance. Any history of mental illness or ANY firearms charges in the past are disqualifying factors. You also need a letter from a farmer giving permission to shoot on their property. Farmers are of course allowed to own rifles for vermin control. Automatic and semi-automatic rifles of ANY calibre are illegal, as is anyting considered "high powered". This all came in after the Port Arthur Massacre (full auto have always been illegal). Effective? maybe... Knee-jerk reaction? definately. You can kill someone just as dead with a bolt action 22 as with an MP5.
Like Stilly I was bought up with rifles and my father was very strict with safety precautions. By the time I was eight I had a very healthy respect for just what I had in my hands. This definately "demystified" guns for me. Perhaps thats what we should be doing instead of forcing a farmer use a piddly 22 to protect his sheep against foxes.

shubles

29th July 2001, 00:40

true
but its just not in my background. anywhere.

actually thats a lie...
...my dad used to take my brothers out rabbit shooting when they were kids.
spose that counts
but that was 15 odd years ago...
...and in he country - good ol' kalgoorlie

wylie

29th July 2001, 00:45

Also all weapons must be secured in an approved gun cabinet. The police can and do conduct spot checks.
Its full on here guys!

shubles

29th July 2001, 00:50

Originally posted by wylie
Also all weapons must be secured in an approved gun cabinet. The police can and do conduct spot checks.
Its full on here guys!

ever since that port arther thing anyway

Stilgar

29th July 2001, 00:53

Originally posted by wylie
To get a firearms licence here you need a full police clearance. Any history of mental illness or ANY firearms charges in the past are disqualifying factors. You also need a letter from a farmer giving permission to shoot on their property. Farmers are of course allowed to own rifles for vermin control. Automatic and semi-automatic rifles of ANY calibre are illegal, as is anyting considered "high powered". This all came in after the Port Arthur Massacre (full auto have always been illegal). Effective? maybe... Knee-jerk reaction? definately. You can kill someone just as dead with a bolt action 22 as with an MP5.
Like Stilly I was bought up with rifles and my father was very strict with safety precautions. By the time I was eight I had a very healthy respect for just what I had in my hands. This definately "demystified" guns for me. Perhaps thats what we should be doing instead of forcing a farmer use a piddly 22 to protect his sheep against foxes.

It sounds pretty much like the same requirements we have. Do you have a "cool down" period? Unless you have already had a background check you can pay for the gun but you can't recieve it until it has been approved. Or you already have the paperwork done. We still allow semi-auto. (Rifle or pistol) Fully auto has some highly restrictive laws. Big time background check on them and serious tracking on gun ownership. Don't need a letter from a farmer. This might throw you or some others off also my mother-in-law has a concealed weapons license. And does carry a gun.

Stilgar

29th July 2001, 01:00

Originally posted by shubles
true
but its just not in my background. anywhere.

actually thats a lie...
...my dad used to take my brothers out rabbit shooting when they were kids.
spose that counts
but that was 15 odd years ago...
...and in he country - good ol' kalgoorlie

I'm kind of surprised there is not more hunting allowed. At least non-native animals. (I.E. rabbits and foxes) I'll come down and take care of that pesky wabbit problem y'all have.:D

shubles

29th July 2001, 01:09

Originally posted by Stilgar

I'm kind of surprised there is not more hunting allowed. At least non-native animals. (I.E. rabbits and foxes) I'll come down and take care of that pesky wabbit problem y'all have.:D

being a girl i was never allowed to go.

still happens, just not in my family.
not since we moved to the city

they're a hell of a lot stricter now though.

although, a family friend of ours just moved to the poxy little suburb my parents live in.
there's a small amount of bushland surrounding it and he goes rabbit hunting.
guns, traps dont know...
...but he does it.

wylie

29th July 2001, 01:53

Originally posted by Stilgar

It sounds pretty much like the same requirements we have. Do you have a "cool down" period? Unless you have already had a background check you can pay for the gun but you can't recieve it until it has been approved. Or you already have the paperwork done. We still allow semi-auto. (Rifle or pistol) Fully auto has some highly restrictive laws. Big time background check on them and serious tracking on gun ownership.
I didnt know this....the media would have us believe anyone could just walk in and pick up an Uzi.
You actually have to get each rifle or pistol licenced seperately before you can take it with you. Dont know how long that takes but probably at least a few weeks.

Man I gotta stop believing everything I see in the movies :D

With regards hunting - foxes are shot on sight. Rabbits are a bit trickier coz theres so damn many of them and lots of diseases. You used to get a bounty on them.
Kangaroos and Emus are hunted in the country areas and are actually pretty good to eat (the country is split on this issue - eating our coat of arms - great party killing subject to bring up

:) )

Stilgar

29th July 2001, 03:16

Originally posted by wylie

I didnt know this....the media would have us believe anyone could just walk in and pick up an Uzi.
You actually have to get each rifle or pistol licenced seperately before you can take it with you. Dont know how long that takes but probably at least a few weeks.

Man I gotta stop believing everything I see in the movies :D

With regards hunting - foxes are shot on sight. Rabbits are a bit trickier coz theres so damn many of them and lots of diseases. You used to get a bounty on them.
Kangaroos and Emus are hunted in the country areas and are actually pretty good to eat (the country is split on this issue - eating our coat of arms - great party killing subject to bring up

:) )

Getting old and sleepy. We have dropped the cool-down and now have an "instant" check by the FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/index.htm) called nics. For some plain words on Texas laws (http://www.texas-on-line.com/graphic/gun.html) But it can take up to 3 days for the check. It's a shame people have done so much damage to enviroment. We also have a few introduced species that need nuking. But one is a tree. The Chinese tallow it was brought over as a fast growing shade tree for residental development. But it took over Texas. And they don't have any meat and kind of tough skinning.:D

Stilgar

29th July 2001, 03:30

Originally posted by shubles

being a girl i was never allowed to go.

still happens, just not in my family.
not since we moved to the city

they're a hell of a lot stricter now though.

although, a family friend of ours just moved to the poxy little suburb my parents live in.
there's a small amount of bushland surrounding it and he goes rabbit hunting.
guns, traps dont know...
...but he does it.

From what I see on the tube, the introduced species have done some pretty hard damage to the local wildlife. To me thats a shame. The Austrailian wildlife is so special it needs to be preserved. In the U.S. we have fenced, killed, took over lands and almost exterminated a lot of native animals. Realy I think development has taken more wildlife in the U.S. then anything. Without the habitat there is little chance for them to continue.

wylie

29th July 2001, 05:05

Originally posted by Stilgar

It's a shame people have done so much damage to enviroment. We also have a few introduced species that need nuking. But one is a tree. The Chinese tallow it was brought over as a fast growing shade tree for residental development. But it took over Texas. And they don't have any meat and kind of tough skinning.:D
Yeah the rabbit wasnt a great idea....nor were wild boars and foxes (bought over for fox hunting.....doh!) The worst ever ballsup would have to be the Cane Toad. No natural predators and you sure dont want to taste it. :)

zhotfire

29th July 2001, 06:09

We've finally come to the point here in Canada where all guns have to be registered, with major restrictions on auto and semi-auto weapons. The feds tell us that it will make us safer, having all these guns registered. The truth is that the only difference it will make is in the police's handling of domestic disputes(gun in house) and man hunts(gun owner). Course, that's only if they have registered their weapons.... all that money spent on implementation of the new legislation and we'll be lucky if it ever saves any lives(all the cops wear flack jackets now anyway). We are no safer today than we were yesterday... i know, i can buy an illegal weapon on the street or with one phone call... course, maybe i just know all the right... er, wrong people. :eek:

wylie

29th July 2001, 06:23

I gather it would be the same in the US....How the hell can you control it (gun ownership) when its got as widespread as it is?
Theres just too damn many of them. When they banned all semi autos a few years ago here there was actually a gun "buy back". Cost millions and thats in a small non-gun-owner culture like ours. No it couldnt be done. I agree with your comments about the police zhotfire. They would certainly want to know!

Stilgar

29th July 2001, 10:04

Originally posted by wylie

Yeah the rabbit wasnt a great idea....nor were wild boars and foxes (bought over for fox hunting.....doh!) The worst ever ballsup would have to be the Cane Toad. No natural predators and you sure dont want to taste it. :)

In Texas we don't have very many introduced animals. Wild dogs and hogs are most common. They introduced "sterilized" chinese grass carp to a lake near here, but found out all were not sterile. A recent introduction (Last 20? years) of exotic animals to game ranches has caused concern but not enough have escaped to make a viable populations. We have some beautiful pine forests, which thanks to the logging industry have helped one type of wood pecker start back in Texas. Only problem long time back they used to be hard wood forests. It's amazing what a small addition man makes can do over a 150 year time.

Stilgar

29th July 2001, 10:22

Originally posted by wylie
I gather it would be the same in the US....How the hell can you control it (gun ownership) when its got as widespread as it is?
Theres just too damn many of them. When they banned all semi autos a few years ago here there was actually a gun "buy back". Cost millions and thats in a small non-gun-owner culture like ours. No it couldnt be done. I agree with your comments about the police zhotfire. They would certainly want to know!

Gun theft and illegal imports would keep any real count down. We have had buy-backs. They don't really work only ones brought in were junkers someone bought 10 years ago and just wanted to get rid of them. Criminals aren't going to bring them in. We had a recent deal on gun locks. But they turned out defective and could be opened without the key.

Chas

29th July 2001, 12:40

I have just read thru this thread, and i must admit i find it very strange reading all you people talking about guns and rifles....

Here in the U.K i guess we must have the toughest laws over fire arms in the world....
You cannot just go and buy a gun

One can have a shotgun certificate if you are a farmer but it must be kept in a steel gun cabinet locked and checked by police often.....

You are not allowed to carry guns at all if caught you are jailed if you attempt to use one in a robbery you will go down for at least 8 years for just carrying it.....

If you buy a Replica and get caught carrying or showing it you risk getting shot by our Armed response police teams who have been known to be a bit trigger happy.......

Stilgar

29th July 2001, 15:56

Wondered when we'd pick up a brit. :D I know there has to be game hunters and collectors over there how do they do it? Now remember all I have to go from is old movies. (Most made in the U.S. :rolleyes: ) We have some stiff laws on using firearms while robbing someone. But sad to say its according to the lawyer as to what happens.

wylie

29th July 2001, 20:51

Chas it sounds like you Brits have the same laws as us.
I havent been advocating gun ownership, just learning some facts. One thing I have realised from past dealings with Americans is that it is so firmly entrenched in their culture (in some parts) it cannot be reversed.

Stilgar

29th July 2001, 22:30

Originally posted by wylie
Chas it sounds like you Brits have the same laws as us.
I havent been advocating gun ownership, just learning some facts. One thing I have realised from past dealings with Americans is that it is so firmly entrenched in their culture (in some parts) it cannot be reversed.

Got to admit at least for some it is. (I'm one. :D ) The history of guns has facinated me.

BTW if any one wants to change subject or modify it please jump in. I think I have spent too much time on guns and laws. The original intent was to try to find out some about how people from other countries feel about stuff. Politics, general lifestyle, pretty much open.

TDKozan

30th July 2001, 15:49

Originally posted by wylie
Man its so weird hearing people talk like this (not passing morals - you've heard all the arguments before I dare say), just weird.
Do you have to keep your weapons secured in a gun safe or can you just stick 'em in the cupboard?

That's half the fun, different folks with different perspectives. Aside from the one I carry, all my guns are locked in one of two safes.

Preemptive answer: No, I don't carry out of any sense of fear, I carry simply because I can, going on 21 years now without ever needing one. With any luck, that will stay that way for the rest of my life.

TK ;>

TDKozan

30th July 2001, 15:54

Stilgar:

Looks like your troll worked better than you thought. If I ever make it to a hotel tonight, I'll have to spend more time on it.

Well done, sir!

TK ;>

randycw

30th July 2001, 16:27

Originally posted by TDKozan

No, I don't carry out of any sense of fear, I carry simply because I can, going on 21 years now without ever needing one. With any luck, that will stay that way for the rest of my life.

TK ;> I carry simply because I can

EXACTLLY!!! :D Most of the guns I own is because I like to have them -- in all honesty I don't NEED a one of them. I owe them because I am FREE to do so. :cool:

Stilgar

30th July 2001, 17:50

Originally posted by TDKozan

That's half the fun, different folks with different perspectives. Aside from the one I carry, all my guns are locked in one of two safes.

Preemptive answer: No, I don't carry out of any sense of fear, I carry simply because I can, going on 21 years now without ever needing one. With any luck, that will stay that way for the rest of my life.

TK ;>

Up on the podium. ;)
I kind of figured I never needed one for self defense so I never carry. One of the reasons I would be ticked if they ever did try to take them away is I have never threatened any one with a gun or even the threat of a gun. I have not commited a crime. But some folks want to take my property away because some one else has.

Still wondering about the U.K. and if some one had a gun as a family heirloom would it be taken away?

Stilgar

30th July 2001, 17:57

Originally posted by TDKozan
Stilgar:

Looks like your troll worked better than you thought. If I ever make it to a hotel tonight, I'll have to spend more time on it.

Well done, sir!

TK ;>

For my next trick I'm going to pull a rabbit out of my hat. I do wish some other folks from some more countries would come in on this. Like Pap and Alfred. I would like to find out what they think. I've been trying to think of another thread. Maybe some thing about the enviroment, or just every day life where ever they live.

wbierman

30th July 2001, 18:20

In the beginning there was a real need for guns. The framers of the US Constitution thought there was a need for a "right" to bear arms.
That was the means by which we threw out the English. Times have drasticly changed since then.

We really don't need guns to secure food for our tables. We have decided to let policemen protect us. They carry deadly force so we don't have to. I like that arrangement. It works for me. If some young buck wants to strap on a gun as his or her job. Be my guest. Today guns serve a single purpose (I'm leaving sport hunting out of this discussion). That purpose is simple...to threaten or kill. There is no other use. If you have a gun for home protection then you simply want deadly force to back you up.

Man in his ingenuity, decided that a single shot weapon was not good enough. Better killing power was sought after. After all, that was the main reason for guns... to kill the other guy. Then it became kill the other guy faster and more of them!

So take the "right to bear arms" and apply it today. A small group found anywhere there is social unrest decides to rise up and decalre the right of forceful change. 250 years ago that was possible.... Today some 19 year old who misses his mama is given an order to program the cordinates of a group who believe that their cause is righteous and justified by the Constitution. A few minutes later a Tomahawk cruise missle is on its way.... END of story. Situation falling under National Security....

What ever applied back then is not relevent today.

Do I have guns? Yes. Are they in a safe? No. They are wraped in oil cloth buried in a concrete bunker. Do I ever play with them anymore? Not since '71. Have I ever been asked to get them out so friends could see them? Yes, and I always decline. They have only one use...

Rick_Deadly

30th July 2001, 18:31

Don't forget you city slickers, us country folk like to hunt! There's nothing like fresh rabbit stew... mmmmmmmmm.

When I lived in the country, a shotgun was a great thing. Now that I have lived in cities for the last 20 years, I don't even have a hunting rifle.

wylie

30th July 2001, 21:00

So how is Kyoto viewed over in the US?
trolltrolltrolltroll

TDKozan

30th July 2001, 21:47

Originally posted by wbierman
<snippety-do-dah>

We really don't need guns to secure food for our tables. We have decided to let policemen protect us. They carry deadly force so we don't have to. I like that arrangement. It works for me. If some young buck wants to strap on a gun as his or her job. Be my guest.

Gotta call you on this one, Will. First, I use a gun to secure food for my table. Aside from a half-dozen steaks, I've not bought an ounce of beef for over two years.

Again: Policemen protecting us? Court case after court case has 'proven' that the police have NO responsibility to protect individual citizens in the U.S. Add in a 10-15 minute response time for a 911 call and you, or at least I, have a major problem. (see my tagline)

Today guns serve a single purpose (I'm leaving sport hunting out of this discussion). That purpose is simple...to threaten or kill. There is no other use. If you have a gun for home protection then you simply want deadly force to back you up.

Yet again: Your stated purposes aren't all that wrong but you left several out; the most important one being: To defend your life or the lives of others. A couple of other uses are FOOD hunting, recreation, collecting, and a disciplined sport. I am an NRA rifle instructor who has spent the last eight years teaching children how to shoot. Punching paper, how not to hurt yourself or someone else. With one exception, none of my students even hunt. SIX (!!!!!) have gone to the Olympic Training Center. One made it to the Olympic semi-finals in qualification.

I shoot IPSC. More paper punching, this time with a pistol. Class 'B'. I win most of my matches but I still can't make class 'A'. I'm not good enough but that doesn't keep me from competing in my class.

Man in his ingenuity, decided that a single shot weapon was not good enough. Better killing power was sought after. After all, that was the main reason for guns... to kill the other guy. Then it became kill the other guy faster and more of them!

So take the "right to bear arms" and apply it today. A small group found anywhere there is social unrest decides to rise up and decalre the right of forceful change. 250 years ago that was possible....

I'm afraid I can't go there without offending you so I'll skip except to say "can you say guerellia warfare"? Has nothing to do with RKBA though.

Today some 19 year old who misses his mama is given an order to program the cordinates of a group who believe that their cause is righteous and justified by the Constitution. A few minutes later a Tomahawk cruise missle is on its way.... END of story. Situation falling under National Security....

Huh?

What ever applied back then is not relevent today.

With much respect, no Sir.

Do I have guns? Yes. Are they in a safe? No. They are wraped in oil cloth buried in a concrete bunker. Do I ever play with them anymore? Not since '71. Have I ever been asked to get them out so friends could see them? Yes, and I always decline. They have only one use...

Will, I respect your experience and experiences. Based on what you left unsaid, please accept my sincere thanks for your service to our country, especially in a time where it was not popular.

I keep guns for three reasons.

1. It is a right as a citizen of the U.S. If you start limiting the Constitution in one area, pretty soon you have nothing left.

2. I reserve the right to defend the lives of myself and others.

3. Food. I hunt. Not for 'sport'. For food. I save my family hundreds of dollars each year with the food I bring home. Pretty darn tasty too.

I fear we can't see eye to eye on this and I do respect your position, I just ask you to respect those of others too. Be they afraid of firearms, pro-firearms, or any position in the middle.

Regards,

Tom Kozan

Stilgar

30th July 2001, 23:56

Originally posted by wylie
So how is Kyoto viewed over in the US?
trolltrolltrolltroll

Bunch-o-tree hugging nuts:D

Hey, we need to do something soon. This is getting ridiculus. They give out ozone warnings. (Do not work or exercise outside in the afternoon hours) For some reason I don't think "Hey, boss the ozone is kinda high today. I should stay inside this afternoon" will cut it. It will be "Oh, you want to go home early then." (No pay of course)

wbierman

31st July 2001, 01:53

Forgive me, but I don't buy the self defense crap. To defend ones self in all situations one must be packing.... To accomplish that, you need a license in most states to carry a concealed weapon. Or do you mean that you want advanced notice before someone has you in their crosshairs. Self defense is a myth.

My Iranian brother-in-law with his macho "I'll defend my wife to the death," is a great example. I pose the question... You awake from a deep sleep. You realize you are not alone in your bedroom. Are you going to tell me that when you awake you will be absolutely awake and clear in your vission. You will not be monentarily confused? You will be able to distinguish the perp from your wife in a dark room? I can tell you the perp will be very awake. In fact his senses will be at their highest. This act may just be the thrill that gets him off. In those first moments, fear has not set in yet. You are still trying to figure out what is wrong. Too late. If your perp is bent on capping your ass... you are now dead or if your perp is a lousy shot... you are dying.

Lets say for the sake of argument that you awake completely alert. You make a move for your gun. The perp senses danger and his adrenilan kicks in to a higher level. Now he is in self-defense mode. He shoots you before you can get a single round off. He has defeated you by the very arugment that you use to justify your gun ownership...self defense! Kill or be killed.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that no one is ever in complete control of any given situation. The law of chaos prevails.

I prefer to never let the perp in my house in the first place. My brother-in-law has shitty door locks. My door is steel as is the frame it is hung on. I sleep very well at night without need of deadly force. My brother-in-law sleeps with his gun...

I respect your views as I believe you respect mine. It is well we can converse in this netural place.....

TDKozan

31st July 2001, 23:12

Will: Nothing ever works perfectly but I couldn't live with myself if I couldn't at least try.

Life is not the movies and good people get hurt at least often as goblins. Still, I'd choose to go down swinging. If, <insert Diety of choice here> forbid, I have to find out, I hope I'm around to give you a status report. Failing that, please be so kind as to hoist a frosty one in my memory.

Regards,

TK ;>

wylie

31st July 2001, 23:25

Originally posted by TDKozan
Failing that, please be so kind as to hoist a frosty one in my memory.
Hell I'm hoisting a frosty one in your memory now! Anyone else want me to have a beer for them?? Please??

Chas

1st August 2001, 05:59

Originally posted by Stilgar

Still wondering about the U.K. and if some one had a gun as a family heirloom would it be taken away?

I think depending on the age of the weapon and it would have to be deactivated then it was o.k

Of course, a lot of British men brought arms back with them from WW2, and there must be a lot of them hanging around in attics....

There are still guns here especially being used in drug wars by the jamaican Yardie gangs, but it is not rampant, Most british Police still only go on duty with a Tear gas cannister,cuffs, and a expandable metal stick, apart from the ones at the Airports, who carry heavy glock Machine guns.......

Stilgar

1st August 2001, 22:03

Originally posted by Chas

I think depending on the age of the weapon and it would have to be deactivated then it was o.k

Of course, a lot of British men brought arms back with them from WW2, and there must be a lot of them hanging around in attics....

There are still guns here especially being used in drug wars by the jamaican Yardie gangs, but it is not rampant, Most british Police still only go on duty with a Tear gas cannister,cuffs, and a expandable metal stick, apart from the ones at the Airports, who carry heavy glock Machine guns.......

Having airport police running around with machine guns sounds scary to me.:D Note to self: If ever in the U.K. don't look suspicious.:eek: in the airport.

Martyn

1st August 2001, 23:37

A little known fact, all the police persuit vehicles in the UK are armed. Not the little panda cars, but the big stripy ones, all have guns locked in the boot.

Martyn

1st August 2001, 23:59

I've read through this thread with interest. It's a passionate issue indeed. I understand fear and I understand power - guns bring both. The last time I looked at the stats, '97 I think, the UK had 12 gun related deaths for the year (excluding N.Ireland), thats out of 56 million people. If guns were legalised, and freely available, would I own one - almost certainly. Wanna see what's under my bed?

http://www.synobyte.com/images/full.jpg

http://www.synobyte.com/images/parts1.jpg

http://www.synobyte.com/images/point-front.jpg

The power is attractive and the fear of others having that power over me is opressive. But I'm seriously glad we have the gun laws we do. They cannot be too harsh IMO. If we were free to own firearms, instead of having a 36" ShinShinto Katana, I would probably have a Deseart Eagle - I'm glad I don't.

wylie

2nd August 2001, 00:26

Wow!
That IS incredible!
Please..........tell me more about it..

zhotfire

2nd August 2001, 00:45

Nice blade tril! A much more elegant weapon than a gun... and those radishes don't stand a chance! :D

Martyn

2nd August 2001, 01:01

Originally posted by wylie
Wow!
That IS incredible!
Please..........tell me more about it..

Hehe - nice isn't it :)

here's a quick page i threw together...

http://www.synobyte.com/images/shinto/shinto.htm

What would you like to know?

Zhot...

Yes, a much more elegant and honourable weapon than a gun. A work of art, but wouldn't stand a chance against a glok. Believe me, I hope we never see the same relaxed attitude to guns in the UK, as there is in the US. I haven't heard a reasonable argument for owning a gun yet. The only reasons that seem logical to me, are power and fear - both very powerful, but emotions I would prefer to leave out of guiding my lifestyle choices. Though if our laws were relaxed, I doubt I would be able to resist.

wylie

2nd August 2001, 04:46

That engraving is awesome.....is it old?
if so do you know its history...
if not where the hell can I get one :D
being a student of martial arts (not weapons yet) these things fascinate me.....not in a "would use it" sense....just the history etc of the culture as a whole.

wbierman

2nd August 2001, 05:04

The real reason the US abounds in guns has absolutely nothing to do with our so-called freedoms.

It has everything to do with money. As the King of capitalism there is money to be made selling to every American who wishes to excersize his or her right to bare arms.

Every time the government has tried to limit certain types of weapons the gun manufactures respond with slight differences to skirt the new laws. Like change the clip from 15 shots to 12 or change the shape of the grip or shorten the stock or modify the flash suppressor. The simplest has been just change the name....

How do you enfore existing laws when gun manufactures refuse to honor the general spirit of certain laws? The answer is you don't! Too much MONEY envolved. Money will always cloud judgement and silence common sense. This is what America has evolved into and it will only get worse....

Very sad...

wbierman

2nd August 2001, 05:11

The blade looks to be quit modern. None of the distinctive "folding" patterns found on "old" blades.

Still take your head off with little effort!

Martyn

2nd August 2001, 05:22

Originally posted by wylie
That engraving is awesome.....is it old?
if so do you know its history...
if not where the hell can I get one :D
being a student of martial arts (not weapons yet) these things fascinate me.....not in a "would use it" sense....just the history etc of the culture as a whole.

Bro, start a new thread on the sword and i'll give ya all the stuff :)

Don't want to break up the gun discussion :)

Martyn

2nd August 2001, 05:30

Originally posted by wbierman
The blade looks to be quit modern. None of the distinctive "folding" patterns found on "old" blades.

Still take your head off with little effort!

A connesieur Will, it's a replica! Though not a stainless toy, hand forged and differentially tempered - the wavy line on the edge - the "hamon" is created my the quenching process and demarks different Rockwell hardnesses through the steel. You're also right, it's not folded. The reason the smiths of old, used to fold the blades, was to even out the carbon content through the blade. Nine or ten folds, would give something in the region of 1000 layers of very even steel. This process isn't necessary with modern steel, though some say it should be done, just to follow the technique (accepting imperfections as a result). Others say it should not be folded, because the high quality powdered Sweedish Carbon steel, can not be improved upon. It is as damned near to the original as you can get, except it's 3 years old, not 300 - which of course, reflects the cost ($800 for this, $10,000 for an original). For a martial artist, it's a perfect training weapon, good for collectors to familiarise themselves with swords - a nice first piece, but unacceptable to the serious collector.

wylie

3rd August 2001, 21:25

What are the consequences of blasting away at intruders in your home in the US??

Here is a thread (http://www.swordforumbugei.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/000050.html) similar to this which describes some circumstances which actually happened in Britain apparently.

Here (Aus) you can be charged just as per normal, but police tend to overlook any "within reason" (whatever that means) self defence. A few years ago a pensioner in adelaide seriously wounded a burglar in his house and was not charged.....made national headlines!

randycw

3rd August 2001, 22:28

Okay this is a bit over-the-top Wylie and probably does NOT reflect the typical attitude in the United States, but I DO THINK it is accurate of the attitude in my state, Wyoming (0.5 people/square mile population density): a state trooper ( my nearest neighbor at about 5 miles away) has advised that you should shoot twice if someone is in your home. Once with deadly force and once in the air, this way you can say you warned him AND there is only one side to the story.

Stilgar

4th August 2001, 00:24

Originally posted by wylie
What are the consequences of blasting away at intruders in your home in the US??

Here is a thread (http://www.swordforumbugei.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/000050.html) similar to this which describes some circumstances which actually happened in Britain apparently.

Here (Aus) you can be charged just as per normal, but police tend to overlook any "within reason" (whatever that means) self defence. A few years ago a pensioner in adelaide seriously wounded a burglar in his house and was not charged.....made national headlines!

In the home pretty much off free. If the person is facing you and considered a threat. It does not require the person be in your house though just a threat. (Fear for your life threat) If you shoot someone several times it would be looked at. (The person probably would not be considered a threat anymore. ) If you reloaded it would be looked at and probably charged. If the person's back is to you and appearently leaving then you will be charged. If the person was hit and you walked over and took a couple more shoots you would be charged. Any of these may be charged with manslaughter or ?. Unless the perp. lives then you may get sued.:confused:

wylie

4th August 2001, 00:45

The letter of the law here states you can use the same force as the intruder.....this of course gave rise to ludicrous scenarios where the intruder had a knife, the defender a pair of scissors or whatever....where these identical??
Mores the point how the hell are you supposed to weigh these things up in your mind at 2am when you've been unpleasantly woken up?? "Okay he's got a bat so I'd better put down the gun and go get my bat of similar size....hang on was it aluminium or wooden???"

As said the unofficial but usual solution is now common sense prevails. Our laws would be stricter than yours however and you would be charged in the majority of your scenarios.
sucks eh??

dnar

4th August 2001, 00:57

You totally mis-understand the intent of these new laws wylie...... Here is how it works:

- You are woken at 2AM by the sound of an intruder

- You greet him, ask him what hes on (Petrol or glue sniffing, crack, speed, dope)

- You arm yourself with the same substance abuse (offering him a snort)

- Beat the living crapers out him with whatever takes your fancy

- Tell the authorities you had the most awefull upbringing and that your parents used to sexually abuse you.

- The courts will take pitty on you, no charges layed.

Well, the last 2 points are right anyway.....

randycw

4th August 2001, 01:59

HA!!! It sounds as if your court system is a goofy as ours! If you can blame it on your parents or somebody else, and make the jury free sorry for you, then you're pretty much off the hook in ALL cases.

dnar

4th August 2001, 02:15

Especially if you happen to belong to a race of people that once had their country stollen from them, and you were taken from your parents by the Governement back in the 60's (the Stollen Generation).....

Stilgar

4th August 2001, 09:18

Originally posted by wylie
The letter of the law here states you can use the same force as the intruder.....this of course gave rise to ludicrous scenarios where the intruder had a knife, the defender a pair of scissors or whatever....where these identical??
Mores the point how the hell are you supposed to weigh these things up in your mind at 2am when you've been unpleasantly woken up?? "Okay he's got a bat so I'd better put down the gun and go get my bat of similar size....hang on was it aluminium or wooden???"

As said the unofficial but usual solution is now common sense prevails. Our laws would be stricter than yours however and you would be charged in the majority of your scenarios.
sucks eh??

That makes sense to me.:confused: A 80 year old widow has to take on a 20 year old burgler in a knife fight. Or she may be jailed. (Have y'all imported any of our politicians lately? At least they would fit be able to make it under the dull blade law. :D )