ShinShinto Katana

[Martyn]

OK, Wyles has asked for a little info on my toy, so rather than split up the "Drive-By" thread, I've started a new one.

http://www.synobyte.com/images/full.jpg

More Pics here: http://www.synobyte.com/images/shinto/shinto.htm


It's a replica!

Though not a stainless toy, hand forged and differentially tempered - the wavy line on the edge - the "hamon" is created my the quenching process and demarks different Rockwell hardnesses through the steel. It's not folded. The reason the smiths of old, used to fold the blades, was to even out the carbon content through the blade. Nine or ten folds, would give something in the region of 1000 layers of very even steel. This process isn't necessary with modern steel, though some say it should be done, just to follow the technique (accepting imperfections as a result). Others say it should not be folded, because the high quality powdered Sweedish Carbon steel, can not be improved upon. It is as damned near to the original as you can get, except it's 3 years old, not 300 - which of course, reflects the cost ($800 for this, $10,000 for an original). For a martial artist, it's a perfect training weapon, good for collectors to familiarise themselves with swords - a nice first piece, but unacceptable to the serious collector.

more later...

[Stilgar]

Cool piece of steel. :cool: Played around with a couple knives myself. Made a Tennesee toothpick stainless steel (Yep, easy design) and just a standard blade knife. out of a piece of a car spring. Both with cocobolo (sp?) wood.

Edit here: I was asked to ask if the wood dragons where brass or bronze? (My son-in-law)

[wylie]

Very nice tril. Do you have/intend to have any martial arts training??
My chosen discpline doesnt use weapons until well beyond black belt. I intend to diversify in the next year or so into a field that does....just for variety sake. Are there any other martial artists in the team?? I'm NO expert, but love the training, the physical and spiritual side of it. Better than any stress management course.
:)

[Martyn]

Originally posted by Stilgar
Cool piece of steel. :cool: Played around with a couple knives myself. Made a Tennesee toothpick stainless steel (Yep, easy design) and just a standard blade knife. out of a piece of a car spring. Both with cocobolo (sp?) wood.

Edit here: I was asked to ask if the wood dragons where brass or bronze? (My son-in-law)

Wow, ya got a pic of that toothpick?

Re the dragons, theyre brass unfortunately. Most of the originals were either bronze or mostly iron, occasionaly precious metals were usesd, but not rerally for combat swords. Iron was by far the most popular choice for the "mountings" even on the best swords. Occasionally the "tsuba" or hand guard were inlaid with silver or gold. There are some really beautifull ones knocking around - fetch a very high price though.

I've been thinking about getting some replica iron mountings, there are some nice ones for about $40 I've seen, although, I'd have to re-wrap the handle and i'm not keen on trying.

[Martyn]

Originally posted by wylie
Very nice tril. Do you have/intend to have any martial arts training??
My chosen discpline doesnt use weapons until well beyond black belt. I intend to diversify in the next year or so into a field that does....just for variety sake. Are there any other martial artists in the team?? I'm NO expert, but love the training, the physical and spiritual side of it. Better than any stress management course.
:)

I had thought some time ago (pre-sword) of taking up Kendo, I looked into it, I like the philosophy and the style, but there isn't a club for 100miles, plus i work irregular shifts, which would make it difficult attending regularly. I've tried to teach myself some basic Iaido cuts, but it's very difficult getting it right. The sword is very well balanced, about 6 inches bladeside of the guard and occasionally, I can make it "sing" but it's so hard to do. Apparently, you can get flutted blades to sing easier, as they dont have to be so perpendicular to the cut, the flutes pic up the air and make the sword buzz. It's a bit of a cheat though, because with unfluted blades, the "bladesong" is one way of knowing you've made a pefect cut. Fascinating stuff, for me and i would dearly love to own an original Shinto.

Check this site out _
http://www.bugei.com

Be sure to take a look at the video, and the swords that they sell - mine is the bottom of the range, still good though, some beuties there.

[wylie]

Great site.and great forum too.
However to import a blade (any blade) into australia it must be totally blunt :mad:

[Martyn]

Man thats awfull. I doubt they would sell a blunt one either. Sharpening is a very specialist thing, the edge is actually polished in rather than ground. Grinding a blade would send one of those guys apopplectic with horror :)

Maybee you could search to see if there is a Japanese sword polishers somewhere in OZ. Then if you contacted Beugi and explained your situation, they might be able to send you a blunt blade which could be sharpened by a professional - cost a lot of wonga though. In Japan, a full polish (all by hand), by a craftsman, takes several months and costs a few thousand dollars - in some cases, they actually re-shape the blade in the process.

[Stilgar]

On the toothpick I need to get a scanner or digital cam setup. It's not the prettiest thing though. Just built tough. The other one looks better. Need to break both down and work on them. Maybe add my sig crescent moon inset. (Got it on my black powder rifles)

[Stilgar]

Originally posted by wylie
Great site.and great forum too.
However to import a blade (any blade) into australia it must be totally blunt :mad:

Even something like a leatherman? (Only knife I carry, but just at work or camping.)

[wylie]

Been looking into it a bit more....
Apparently its mainly if an individual wants to bring a sword in it must be blunt. You can get special approval but must be an approved collector (though how you are supposed to become an approved collector without special approval is beyond me).
Australian customs regulations are pretty strict. Something like a leathermans is classified as a tool rather than a knife. Flick knives are totally banned here. I bought a Ghurka Kukri knife back from a stint in Brunei in my army days....however being army they sorta just let us through fortunately.

[dnar]

Nice knives mate :D

[Martyn]

Originally posted by wylie
Been looking into it a bit more....
Apparently its mainly if an individual wants to bring a sword in it must be blunt.

Just a thought, can't you get one under your martial arts licence?

Or alternatively, what about a genuine antique? I bet you could find them for sale in OZ.

[dnar]

My neighbour is into martial arts, and has several swords like that. Whenever the alarm for house across the road goes off, I see him in his front yard, armed with two of those things..... Would not want to get in his way! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Stilgar]

Originally posted by dnar
My neighbour is into martial arts, and has several swords like that. Whenever the alarm for house across the road goes off, I see him in his front yard, armed with two of those things..... Would not want to get in his way! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Now see that could get you hauled away in the U.S. (Jail or funny farm)

[dnar]

Originally posted by Stilgar




Now see that could get you hauled away in the U.S. (Jail or funny farm)
And here too! Does not bother him in the slightest.... Of course, you are safer just being the buglar... Not much chance of being repremanded for that...

[Stilgar]

Originally posted by dnar

And here too! Does not bother him in the slightest.... Of course, you are safer just being the buglar... Not much chance of being repremanded for that...

Robbery is a low sentence crime normally. We regularly let them out due to overcrowding. Not that they finished or even came close to finishing the sentence. Had a few foobars that way though.

[Martyn]

I have a philosophy. If I hear someone break in downstairs, I call the police. They can do what they like, ransack the place and I'll just leave it for 5-0. But, if they come upstairs, then they are bad people, if they try to enter my bedroom, they are seriously bad people and I'm rightfully in fear of my life. At this point, I care not for the consequences - where's my Shinto!

[wbierman]

My Japanese shinken are as follows...

1.) An Iai Kuniharu Length= 74.3cm Tsuba= iron Catfish Weight= 910 g

2.) An Iai Kunimitsu Length= 75.8cm Tsuba= iron Ginko Nut Weight= 955 g

No stainless here boys!

[Martyn]

Originally posted by wbierman
My Japanese shinken are as follows...

1.) An Iai Kuniharu Length= 74.3cm Tsuba= iron Catfish Weight= 910 g

2.) An Iai Kunimitsu Length= 75.8cm Tsuba= iron Ginko Nut Weight= 955 g

No stainless here boys!

Oh, beautiful Will, you say shinken, are they in full polish? Man have you got any pics??

The company I bought mine from have now started to fold all thier blades. They say it's not structurally necessary, but buyers want them as much for the art than as a practical MA weapon. It's bumped the price up by 50% though.

[shubles]

Originally posted by dnar
My neighbour is into martial arts, and has several swords like that. Whenever the alarm for house across the road goes off, I see him in his front yard, armed with two of those things..... Would not want to get in his way! :eek: :eek: :eek:

there you go wyles...
... beats that bloody big stick (log) you had.
Geez u scared the shit out of me.

[Daniel, Laura, and Nora]

Originally posted by wylie
Very nice tril. Do you have/intend to have any martial arts training??
My chosen discpline doesnt use weapons until well beyond black belt. I intend to diversify in the next year or so into a field that does....just for variety sake. Are there any other martial artists in the team?? I'm NO expert, but love the training, the physical and spiritual side of it. Better than any stress management course.
:)

We are a fairly non-violent family but Laura does do yoga. No blades involved but that ankle behind the head move is pretty fierce if you ask me. Those without gonads of steel faint dead away at the sight of that little maneuver.

Daniel

[wylie]

Dont get the wrong idea Daniel, I dont study this for violence. I primarily got into it as a weight loss thing (started getting the dreaded gut). It worked damned well. I soon got hooked on it and believe its the ultimate stress relief and a damn fine form of excercise. Teaches co-ordination, balance, mental discipline and fitness. The combat element is a VERY small part of it. Being able to defend ones self is simply a bonus, but my instructors stress it is ONLY a defence thing. You can get kicked out of the club if found starting a fight.

These disciplines do have roots in violence. Karate was invented as an unarmed defence against Samarai when all weapons were banned. Tai Chi came about when martial arts were banned, so they practiced extremely slowly so as not to look like they were doing any. Even Yoga could have its roots here!

There are of course some clubs which are less traditional and more.......violent. These are not respected amongst the wider community.

....and yeah...that ankle behind the head thing makes me wince too! :D

[wbierman]

Tril-

Yes...full hand polish. The saya is hand made from a Japanese wood called Honoki. Basically all aspects of construction of my shinken are carried out by master craftsmen. These guys have gone from generation to generation. The Grandson usually takes his Grandfathers name which is there tradition.

I use Choji oil to keep the rust away... Occaisionly I go out and perform random beheadings in my neighborhood. Keeps the bad people away.....just kiddin...


Pics...

Have pics somewhere... I think on a dead HD. Digital camera died several months ago in the Pacific ocean. My Kodak DC290 did not like the salt water. Great camera!

[Martyn]

Originally posted by wbierman
Tril-

Yes...full hand polish. The saya is hand made from a Japanese wood called Honoki. Basically all aspects of construction of my shinken are carried out by master craftsmen. These guys have gone from generation to generation. The Grandson usually takes his Grandfathers name which is there tradition.

I use Choji oil to keep the rust away... Occaisionly I go out and perform random beheadings in my neighborhood. Keeps the bad people away.....just kiddin...

hehe, I love to see a pic of the blade. I'd really love to have one with some nice activity, but as you say, gotta be folded for that :(

Still, I care for it as you would a Japanese sword, polish the Carbon Steel with rice paper and a powder ball, then coat with Choji - scented with clove oil :) (good for tooache too).

I've been trying to find a original in the UK, but most are now in the hands of collectors and whats left is mostly the factory made, war time blades - can't remember what they're called - crap though.

I still hope to drop on one at a flea market or village fair one day :)

Can't afford the 5,000 to 20,000 for a nice, fully polished shinken

[wbierman]

Mine are NOT folded.... just made by masters...

I checked out that video you suggested... boring. Should have other materials like 2", 3", bamboo... maybe a bundle of different sized bamboo.

Very few single handed cuts... maybe 2? Where is your katanas point of balance?

The problem with blades is the compramise that is made to make them. Flexable but not to stiff. The ability to hold an edge...no chipping, even when making heavy sword to sword contact.

There is just something about how the Japanese make things. A Japanese woodworker for instance, will sharpen his plane after each pull. He wants it as sharp as possible. A single pull and it is not as sharp as it could be...

[siggy]

Originally posted by dnar
My neighbour is into martial arts, and has several swords like that. Whenever the alarm for house across the road goes off, I see him in his front yard, armed with two of those things..... Would not want to get in his way! :eek: :eek: :eek:

SO you live in a bad neighborhood?

[Martyn]

Originally posted by wbierman
Mine are NOT folded.... just made by masters...

I checked out that video you suggested... boring. Should have other materials like 2", 3", bamboo... maybe a bundle of different sized bamboo.

Very few single handed cuts... maybe 2? Where is your katanas point of balance?



About 51/2" to 6" bladesside of the tsuba, juts sit the back of the blade on a gloved finger and it's balanced - sweet. I've never struck anything with mine, not even a test cut. The blade is in damned near perfect condition. I did use the weight of the blade to cut through a sheet of paper, sliced through it like a kitchen knife, way sharp.

Though I doubt there are many blades in existance that could handle edge to edge contact, without damage, there's a limit to the laws of physics, no matter how well made the blade is. If the edge is too hard, it'll chip on every cut, if it's too soft it'll be too dull to cut properly and the balance between edge and body is important too.