Rack recommendations??? [Archive] - The Genome Collective

Ciccio

6th August 2001, 14:16

I presume as rack you're not thinking proper 19" rackmount units? They get rather expensive.

I have a little shelf system form IKEA. :)

If you are going Intel for the noise then VP6's I reckon would be the way to go. Shame your limited to PIII 1000's with it though, in terms of both cost an performance.

You might want to think about something like the cheapy PCCHIPS 810 mobo and shove durons in it. My duron@1020 runs at 42 - 44 degrees, whereas my T-bird at 1125 runs at 52 - 56 degrees. The extra cache makes a big difference. With the duron you could get away with the quieter taisol fans too.

However they are single processor systems, maybe it's worth saving till a dual duron board comes out at a reasonable price?

Martyn

6th August 2001, 16:12

Funny you should mention that, I was talking with Phil earlier in the chatroom and we were discussing that very board. Nice 'n cheap, fully integrated I like it. Slap on a duron, overclock it, add 2x128mb ram and you've a nifty powerhouse for under £200.

But yes, I was thinking full 19" racks. I've seen em at various prices, from a few hundred to a few thousand. I was also toying with building my own, or a combo of homebuild rack housing, with commercial units. I like the 1U Supermicro's but they're a bit expensive - 4U is probably where I'll go. I think RS electronics sell a fairly cheap rack unit too - dunno at this moment, just playing with ideas. I'd like to have some big power to hand, but don't want to (cant afford to) build a farm.

MechCD

6th August 2001, 16:32

How many systeams are you planning on building? You might not need a rack, the money saved on not getting a rack could be used on the cpu, ram, or cooling.

I have made a custom enclosure that will hold 4 crunchers. Right now it hold only 2. There are pics in the hardware forum (Farm pics)

You might be able to get a cheap filing cabinet and use that too. or some lexan and made shelves and just plop each puter on a shelf (none of my stuff is mounted, it just kinda sits there)

Ciccio

6th August 2001, 16:41

tril, the only things with the pcchips board is the only fsb you can choose is 100 or 133, with no multiplier changing.

Unless of course you wish to play about with the L bridges on the top of the chip?

At work we have some supermicro 1u and 4u cases, personally don't think it's worth the expense, top on or off the noise is the same, and you're probably looking at over £100 a case.

For a cheapo board look at the elite somethingorother (I'll get the part numbeR) basically got it in Mum's machine, nothing integrated but is under £70 and allows FSB overclocking. Will cost ~£10 for graphics and ~£5 for a NIC, is the extra £15 worth the 200odd Mhz O/C your going to get out of it?

Personally I'm thinking of the Pcchips mobo, 1.2gig T-bird and a small amount of memory, that's about £200. I can get the pcchips mobo for £62, 1.2Gigger for £95, £28 256Mb PC133 = £185, even not O/C that's still a kick arse cruncher for the money. Plus there's enough left out of £200 to get a decent cooler.

Or if you've already got the coolers, you could get the 1.3 gigger for £200

EDIT: OK 256Mb is not a small amount of memory :) so prices for 128Mb = £18 and 64Mb = £15, maybe 128Mb is the sweetspot.

So that gives you

mobo = 62
1.3 gigger = 112
Memory = 18
Total = 192

Add a fop32/taisol/??? for £15

stall6g

6th August 2001, 17:11

Wow VAT really kills you guys huh? Buying all of those parts here in the States would be around $200US.

Martyn

6th August 2001, 18:22

Originally posted by Ciccio
tril, the only things with the pcchips board is the only fsb you can choose is 100 or 133, with no multiplier changing.

Unless of course you wish to play about with the L bridges on the top of the chip?

Personally I'm thinking of the Pcchips mobo, 1.2gig T-bird and a small amount of memory, that's about £200. I can get the pcchips mobo for £62, 1.2Gigger for £95, £28 256Mb PC133 = £185, even not O/C that's still a kick arse cruncher for the money. Plus there's enough left out of £200 to get a decent cooler.

Or if you've already got the coolers, you could get the 1.3 gigger for £200

That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking too, except I have a 1.2 running sweet at 1520, I think most should do 1450. If ya set the bridges, it can be done. Memory is dirt cheap now too. I was thinking in the region of 5 boards. Maybe the easiest way to do this is pick up 5 desktops from a faie and rack em into a drawer unit of some kind, or make one from MDF. Shouldn't be too hard. My other thought, was to spend a little more on the setup and go for 5 x VP6's populated with 10 x PIII 700's Oc'd to 950 or thereabouts. Would be a quieter setup, question is, how much is 10 x P2 700's gonna cost me - maybe if I check out ebay, but they are still pretty expensive compared to AMD's offerings - the result would be nearly 10ghz though. Doubt I'd get much change from £3,000 though. I don't really want to spend that kind of money, 5 of your system, would be £1000 - much nicer :)
Still give up 7GHz too!

Martyn

6th August 2001, 18:26

Originally posted by stall6g
Wow VAT really kills you guys huh? Buying all of those parts here in the States would be around $200US.

Believe it man, we get smacked for loads of stuff - dunno why, not as if we're a rich nation. Government creams us. Always has.

MechCD

6th August 2001, 18:28

Ok, idea time

Make a tower type thing, enclosed on 3 sides (back and sides)

Put 5 rollers in (2 per rack)

Make a tray to go in the rollers, put the puters on the trays

Make som eholes in the back for wires, and maybe put a front with a hinge or something.

____________

| |

|o o|

|o o|

|o o|

|o o|

|o o|

-----------

"o" is a roller

Martyn

6th August 2001, 18:47

hehe - kinda like a hi-fi cabinet ;)

Ciccio

6th August 2001, 19:13

Cheapest I can get the PIII's at is

PIII 750 (100FSB) = £112
PIII 1000 (133FSB) = £160

10 x 750 = £1,120,
10 x 1000 = £1,600

So lets say 10Ghz is gonna cost you £1200 in CPU's alone. Let's say that 1200 T-birds can make 1400.

1200 = £88

5 x 1200 = £440

Mobos will be about the same price, but the mem subsystem on the pcchips sckt A boards is better than their S370 counterparts too.

Well. I know what I'd do

5 x T-bird 1200 = £440
5 x Pcchips 810 = £310
5 x 128 PC133 = £90
5 x HSF = £75
5 x PSU = £75
5 x CDROM = £125
5 x 10Gb HDD = £300

Total for 5 systems and 7 - 7.5 max Ghz is £1,415
This is about equivalent to 9Ghz of PIII's remember.

Or

5 x PIII 750 = £560
5 x Pcchips 758 = £268
5 x 128 PC133 = £90
5 x HSF = £75
5 x PSU = £75
5 x CDROM = £125
5 x 10Gb HDD = £300

Total for 5 systems and max 5Ghz of PIII power = £1,490

Or

10 x PIII 750 = £1,120
5 x VP6 = £630
5 x 128 PC133 = £90
5 x NIC = £50
5 x Graphics cards = £75
5 x HSF = £75
5 x PSU = £75
5 x CDROM = £125
5 x 10Gb HDD = £300

Total 5 systems and max 10Ghz of PIII power = £2,540

Seems pretty clear to me. I understand I may not have the best prices, and you can source things like HDD's and CDROM's and GRaphics cards and NICs from eBay, but as a comparison, considering those peripherals you would need to get regardless, I think it's quite telling.

verT

6th August 2001, 19:42

To build on MechCD's idea (I'm not sure if that was exactly what he was talking about) you could use some drawer slides (I'm sure a lot of us are using them on our keyboard trays) for the trays some of them can handle up to 75lbs more than enough for even the largest coolers :D

Martyn

6th August 2001, 20:13

Posted by Ciccio
Seems pretty clear to me. I understand I may not have the best prices, and you can source things like HDD's and CDROM's and GRaphics cards and NICs from eBay, but as a comparison, considering those peripherals you would need to get regardless, I think it's quite telling.

Yeah, certainly is. I think I can source the parts cheaper too. Dnar has a cracking source for CAS2 128mb dimms - $20AUD, about £10 quid - laughable init?

Also, I was thinking of using durons, simply because they can be had so cheaply

Take a look here (http://rswww.com/itc/scripts/SearchDisplay.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0027125301.0997 142435@@@@&BV_EngineID=dallilcdhhfbemfcfkmcggcg.0&start=0&ViewType=2&SearchID=997142456058) (if that link doesn't work, go here: http://rswww.com/ and do a search for "19in rackmount" and then select view as images) some nice rackmount stuff from RS - modular, in particular, the 24U cabinets and 4U blank housings. Shouldn't cost too much to set up a decent rack. Of course it would be much cheaper to DIY, but when you've got your rack setup, it's totally modular - cool for upgrades.

I was also thinking maybe 4 units with dual AMD's. The boards are a little pricey yet ($250USD+ import duty), but can you say 12gig of AMD power???

I'm thinking of building the rack first, a little at a time, the re-assess in a few weeks when the rack is built - mmm, looking forward to this :)

Problem is, I tend to get a little carried away. :D

MechCD

6th August 2001, 21:20

Originally posted by verT
To build on MechCD's idea (I'm not sure if that was exactly what he was talking about) you could use some drawer slides (I'm sure a lot of us are using them on our keyboard trays) for the trays some of them can handle up to 75lbs more than enough for even the largest coolers :D

Yes drawer slides are what I was talking about, i couldn't get the right werds out of my fingers :)

verT

6th August 2001, 21:53

Great minds do think a like (I wonder why nobody thinks like me....:rolleyes: )

wbierman

7th August 2001, 02:52

I like this site for parts: http://www.milestek.com

Their tele # 1-800-524-7444

Check out "Rack Rails" (this is the drilled and tapped spaced 5/8" -5/8" - 1/2" steel strips without the steel backbone. Lengths from 2 spaces all the way to 45 spaces. These pieces range from $2.00 to $22.00 each.

I have thought about the do-it-yourself wood puter in a drawer thing for some time. I used to be a cabinet maker in another life.

My idea similar to the above thoughts and works like this:

Large box full of sealed drawers each with a puter and guts in each drawer. Mine would mount onto wall via a 6 foot paino hinge mounted on the rear left corner. Drawers would pull out with "full" extension side guides. (I have 60-80 pairs of these laying around, each with 100lb capacity) When ever it is necessary to check a Cat5 cable connection or mouse hookup, just swing the box to the left and access all the connections.

With a carefully constructed router jig, one could make multiple identical draw fronts and make cutouts for CD-ROM and floppy drives. Drill some holes for LED status lights and holes for Power switch and Reset buttons.

My cooling gets interesting... My drawers would be made up of compartments. One large one for Mobo. A seperate on in the rear for the power supply and a long narrow one for the hard drives on the right....scratch that...

PS and hard drives in a compartment on the left side. Big fan on the right side blowing in over CPU and heatsink. This large fan 120mm or multiple 120mm fans would be mounted in a space built in to the left case side. The drawer would not be your typical drawer. It's two sides would be twice the height of a regular drawer with the bottom piece mounted halfway up (bottom insulated with foam to prevent puter below heating the one above). The side guides would attach on the bottom portion of the drawer sides, thus leaving room for the large fans above to blow air in unrestricted through the side opening. The drawer would have holes in the left side that lined up with the large fans built into the side of the case.

Heat is the enemy. My case would use convection to get rid of heat. Place HDs and PS in it's own space within drawer on left side. Keep that generated heat seperate from CPU, chip sets, and video.

It seems all this mod stuff has lit a spark unde rmy generally lazy ass. Retirement will do that! I'm going to start this project tomorrow.

Time to venture out into my shop. 12" table saw with 29 speed power feed, 8" jointer, 3 full size drill presses, 15" surface planer, 4" dual head inflatable drum sander, 16" vertical sander, 6" occilating drum sander, mortisser, 15" chop saw, 2- 5HP shapers, 36" vertical band saw and half a dozzen routers. Should be fun.

I still have to work out how to vent hot air out of case. I'm thinking of the space between the side guides below the drawer bottom.

I'll have to get another digital camera and post pics for you all to drool over.

wbierman

7th August 2001, 03:13

I have purchased several 4U enclousurs wo/ps for $125 + tax and shipping from an outfit in down in LA. Locally they cost $200+. Pays to shop around!

Bruce

7th August 2001, 04:04

Originally posted by wbierman
I have thought about the do-it-yourself wood puter in a drawer thing for some time. I used to be a cabinet maker in another life.

You know, the folks that build computers for a living put some extra money into making sure the cover and the base are well grounded together and that all the openings are shielded so that the RF doesn't leak out and interfer with somebody's TV (or, for that matter, microwave your gonads). . .:eek: :eek: . . . and that was true back in the 33 MHz / 4.7 MHz era, let alone at higher frequencies.

I'm not sure wood is the best choice . . . .

wbierman

7th August 2001, 04:38

That is easily rectified. A can of spray adhesive and line it with tin foil. There is your RF shielding.

I plan to use part of the case i.e., the mounting for the mobo and the back of the case. I have a unused cheap one laying about. It is only rivited together. Take it all apart and use those two pieces to maitain a common interface for the rear of the drawer. It is a mid-size tower case and not too wide as to make the drawer too tall.

Should work fine. Now to find more of these cheap cases...

MechCD

7th August 2001, 08:11

oops! You mean I'm supposed to ground everything? Hehehehe, lets see now

2 hdds are touching, thats ground for each other :D

Mobo is sitting on foam

powersupply is under hdds, so the hdds are grounded :D

the top mobo is floating

the side ps isn't touching anything other than hte side of the pegboard case

Bruce

7th August 2001, 13:56

Originally posted by MechCD
oops! You mean I'm supposed to ground everything? Hehehehe,

Not ground, shield.

MechCD

7th August 2001, 14:35

Hmm, shielding is a good, idea.

You do not need to ground everything! That should be done via the wiring harnesses!

Its good to have the chassis grounded, but the chassis SHOULD NOT be the only ground, or the main ground. Thats what those black wires are for on each power connector.

Now if you have 2 powersupplies in the same case powering items in the case, then you would want a grounding strap between them, or connect the grounds together (the strap is easier)

Jodie

7th August 2001, 15:54

I'm still particularly fond of the stability and build quality of Supermicro, but I know they're on the pricey side for you... And you're not limited to 1Ghz in the Intel arena. You're limited to 1.13 or 1.26 by the end of the month...

wbierman

7th August 2001, 16:41

If you want cheap 1Us then why not the new Sun Netra X1? Only $995. That is way less than a Dell Power Edge 350 or a Compaq ProLiant DL 320 or a IBM xSeries 330.

Jodie

7th August 2001, 17:03

The Netra is only Sparc-based, correct? See earlier thread... That's not going to help for crunching genomes at the moment...

The Netra[tm] X1 server comes complete with a 400-MHz, 64-bit UltraSPARC[tm] processor, 128-MB memory, a 20-GB industry-standard IDE hard drive, the Solaris[tm] 8 Operating Environment, and advanced remote management and monitoring capabilities. This ultra-thin, rack-mountable server delivers Sun's renowned quality for under $1,000.

I can build a TWO processor, 1.13Ghz Supermicro with 1Gig for exactly the same price as a single processor Netra X1 with 1Gig of ram and a SINGLE processor.

Unless you're looking at the higher-end Carrier-class Netra's (like the T-1, for example, the machine that we build product around), it's not even worth talking about...

MechCD

7th August 2001, 17:05

I don't think you can run G@H on a Sun......

I think tril wanted to get standard ATX size rackmounts too, so he could shop around for better prices.

That is a good price for a sun though. :D

Jodie

7th August 2001, 17:19

*really* low end sun, however...

And trust me, at this moment, you CAN'T run G@H on a SPARC system. If you could, I'd be ranked in the top ten right now instead of down in the 80s... Another sixty or so processors wouldn't go amiss...

MechCD

7th August 2001, 17:39

Did ya find a slot 1 in yer stack o cpus?

Hmmm, we just have to call your pile o goodies somethin'

Jodies stash 'o goodies maybe?

Jodie

7th August 2001, 18:09

I've got a Celeron-600 and an AMD-700, the 600 is definitely slot 1, the 700 I'd imagine isn't...

Go ahead and email me either on these, or to pick-up a processor wholesale, so we can discuss getting it to you, if you like! jlr@interactdevices.com

wbierman

7th August 2001, 18:47

If the goal is an inexpensive Genome cruncher then my bet is an Asus A7A266, AMD 1.4GHz T-bird 266FSB, Crucial 256 megs PC2100 ECC DDR, Matrox 4meg PCI video, Netgear NIC, IBM HD, Win2K Pro.

This setup will kick any SuperMicro Single CPU Intel box around the block hands down.

Cost:

mobo $135
CPU $153
Mem $45
Video $24
NIC $18
HD $75
OS $0 NFR

Total= $450

What we are talking here is the most bang for the buck.... I'll get more WUs per dollar than any other solution.

Martyn

7th August 2001, 19:06

I tell you whats on my mind. At the end of the day, I want a system I can use practically in a home environment. At the risk of commiting blasphemy, this means windows OS 2K or XP, why, well, I'm not going to outlay all that cash for a system just to crunch - I don't have that kind of financial resource, and the only way I can justify it to myself, is if the rach is also my workstation. This means primarily grahics manipulation - 3D studio max and Photoshop, with a little word processing. Both those graphics apps can be multi theaded so SMP looks good, MAX can also farm it's workload out accross a network, so good there too. Linux is simply not a competitor for a desktop/workstation environment end of story. with that in mind, I am starting to refine my thinking down to a couple of 4U units (maybe more in time) AMD based, with dual Procs. It's not necessarily the cheapest way of crunching genome, but that is secondary to my need for it to work as a graphics workstation.

Now, I know MAX can be farmed out accross a network, but I'm not sure how to do this, or even what OS is needed - so I could do with some advice there. Is it possible to just keep adding 4U boxes under win 2K? Is there any way to integrate all of the procs under a multi threaded application, so the application utilises them all? You see what I'm thinking, but completely new ground for me, any advice appreciated.
Ta

Jodie

7th August 2001, 19:14

Absolutely with 3D max and 2K (or even 98) you can just keep adding machines, the same way that you can with G@H. There's a 'network setup' under 3Dmax to allow you to do this. When you're ready, let me know in chat, and I'll walk you through it. You need atleast 10bT, although I'd recommend a 100bT network. I regularly do that myself for rendering movies...

That only works with applications designed to do that, ie, not photoshop...

Jodie

7th August 2001, 19:22

Originally posted by wbierman
OS $0 NFR

Umm, where'd you find W2K Pro for $0?

I assume you meant linux, there... ;)

(And a properly tuned Linux system is going to bump your performance by ATLEAST 15% for crunching...) (Dnar is going to propose to me now, I can just feel it... :p :p :p )

Jodie

7th August 2001, 19:25

And for whatever it's worth, if I can build that machine in the sub-$450 range (even at wholesale prices, which is what I get), I'll build half a dozen of them today. In fact, on my way down to my supplier to find out what that system would build for at wholesale. Don't be overly surprised if my production goes up a LOT tomorrow... [grin] Actually, with the machines I added yesterday, it looks like I may go into the yellow production range every day now anyway... 458 over the last 24hrs, and one of the fastest machines was down...

Martyn

7th August 2001, 19:54

Originally posted by Jodie
Absolutely with 3D max and 2K (or even 98) you can just keep adding machines, the same way that you can with G@H.

[snipped]

That only works with applications designed to do that, ie, not photoshop...

Cool :) I picked up some 3com nics from a fair recently (very cheap) that should do the job nicely, I assume you need a switch not a hub? Still, there are some cheap options there too. Shame about photoshop - still benefit from SMP though :)

On a side note, MAX makes good use of 3D graphics cards, so does each base need to have the same graphics, or does it only farm out CPU workload?

Thanks for the offer on the walkthrough, I'll give you a shout when I'm ready, don't hold ya breath though, my salary uploads are monthly :)

Jodie

7th August 2001, 21:50

Nope, except for GeForce3, you can't actually use the graphics card hardware for rendering. And even on the GeForce3, it's only PixelShaders which isn't going to help photorealism (phong shading even) much... It's using your CPU only. I use headless boxes, similar to what I'm using for G@H, except that I'm using Alpha machines. (ZOOOOM!)

In the FWIW department, I just bought 3- 1.33Ghz Athlons, with 512Meg of 266 DDR RAM and an IBM Deskstar 30Gig/7200 drive for each. About $580 complete with GeForce2mx-32mb graphics and hopped-up fannage.

Martyn

7th August 2001, 22:08

That's strange, Im running an older version of MAX - 2.5, and I was sure there was support for voodoo, maybe not, still - removes the need to go banannas on the graphics tho :)

Jodie

7th August 2001, 22:45

Yes, it supports voodoo for accelleration, but that's not rendering. The GeForce3 was the first TRUE consumer GPU.

wbierman

7th August 2001, 23:38

I have cultivated a close relationship with MS for years now. I'm invited twice a year to Redmond with at least 3 dinners per year here in San Francisco. I have been under an NDA for the last 5 years. I have received many fine "parting gifts" over the years. Everything from BackOffice 4.0, Small Business Server 2.0 and the latest SQL 2000. I picked up several NFR copies of Advanced Server in Dec. 99, at the Channel Partners Presentation Dinner in SF.

I have many friends in MS who I keep in regular touch with. If I'm desperate there is always the "Action Reseller Pack" with is now a yearly subscription based deal. $449 for $10,000+ in software.

Jodie

7th August 2001, 23:48

Cool. For the average user on the board, however, you can't really list that as the price-of-poker...

wbierman

8th August 2001, 00:16

Yes it is difficult to get NFR products.

Howerver, anyone can try for the MS Action Pack subscription bundle.These are available in the states and also outside. Check here:

http://www.microsoft.com/partner/businessdevelopment/salesresources/actionpack/

Become an overnight consultant and take advantage of this terrific offer.

Here is what is in the bundle...

Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server 5 LIC 10 ACLs
Microsoft Small Business Server 2000 5 10
Microsoft Exchange 2000 Enterprise Server 5 10
Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional 5 n/a
Microsoft Office XP Professional 10 n/a
Microsoft Project 2000 10 n/a
Microsoft FrontPage® 2002 10 n/a
Microsoft Visio 2002 5 n/a
Microsoft SQL Server 2000 Developer Edition 5 10

Throw out SBS, Exchange, Project, Visio, Office XP, SQL, and FrontPage. What are you left with?

Win2K AS and Win2K Pro (Order now and Win2K Pro is replaced with Win XP Pro). That's 10 machines with 10 legit licenses. Cost after TAX $48.49 per box! I'll take that $49 bucks over Linux any day of the week.

Jodie

8th August 2001, 00:28

So double the price of the system, then, unless you run Linux (more stable, more speed, much less dinero.)

wbierman

8th August 2001, 00:33

Great another pissing contest.....

Jodie

8th August 2001, 01:57

Naw, no pissing contest.

It's pretty simple: Get the best windows admin you can find to configure a windows machine.

Get a decent linux admin to configure a linux box.

Run G@H.

Linux on the same hardware will beat it in execution speed by 15% minimum.

Windows is a great desktop operating system.

If you need raw speed the first place to start looking for it is to rip out the gui which requires threads in constant execution path to maintain itself. If you ran Xwindows you'd largely lose any advantage you gained.

That's simple profiling...

wbierman

8th August 2001, 02:31

Hmmm. I never thought of booting to the CMD prompt, skipping the Win2K GUI and running Genome. Has anyone tried that method? I wonder if that could work....

I won't dispute that Linux is faster without a GUI. But what fun would that be....? kind of hard to surf the web from the CMD line.

Jodie

8th August 2001, 02:41

actually, it's not hard to surf the web from the command-line at all. In fact, it's much much faster and cleaner.

lynx. Learn it, live it, love it.

wbierman

8th August 2001, 03:13

But no pretty pictures...

I was just thinking... if Linux is so stable... runs for years without a reboot. Where is the money?

If it is low cost or "free" with no license fee then how do you justify a service contract? It obviously takes very knowlegeable
people to setup and configure. Is not the money now tied to service...? all those billable hours....

Taken to the extreme... Linux captures 56% of the server market. With all this stability is it not just a matter of time before someone ships a range of Linux server appliances that come preconfigured, ready to run with maybe 10 min of specific configuration? Then it runs for 3-4 years before it's life cycle has ended. You have just pulled this appliance out of the box, stuck it in the rack, screwed it in. Pulged it in, turn on the power and boot.
That did not take very long... where are the billable hours that keeps a midsize comapny in business?

MS and all its products with all their faults keep a shitload of companies and an even greater number of people employed around the world. That is a good thing.

Jodie

8th August 2001, 03:30

We build a product around both NetBSD and Linux. It's a 1U-4U (depending upon storage and processing configuration) that comes out of the box, plugs in to the wall and network, plugs into video/audio inputs, is configured by connecting to it via a web connection and private ip address, takes sub-5mins to set up, and runs forever. (one of my QA machines has been up almost 1300 days.) Where do we make our money? In our software upgrades and enhanced features. The operating system is not where we make our money, or desire to. The hardware is disposable. Some of our machines are carrying 15,000 simultaneous streaming video and audio connections, 24hrs/day, 7 days/wk with nary a problem or hassel. That's the way I like it - it means I have very little support staff and my margins are larger, and I get to spend my budget in R&D, where I can continue to support the company in releasing new versions.

Linux is difficult to set-up? Put the CD in the drive, turn it on, hit enter, click next three times (RH-7.1 in this example) Enter your network information in the pretty gui, click next, select "workstation", click next, type your root password twice, click next, put in the second disk, click ok, click next, take the cdrom out of the drive. You're done. Not exactly brain surgery...

wbierman

8th August 2001, 04:17

Cool.

I stick a Win XP disk in and after around the same amount of input, sans the IP address or shared printer info, 2 reboots and Bob's your uncle. I'm on the Net and I click print and it prints. I did not have to play with an IP address nor configure a printer. Prior to the install, the yet to be installed new OS automatically went out and grabed all the latest updates and added them to the install package. It's done!

If I'm lazy I just boot from a floppy and suck a network install down in less than 10 minutes.

Now I have my farm.... there is a new security update. I grab it and create a new Group Policy object. I click apply and it propagates through my farm and all my machines are updated. I only had to touch a single machine. No scripts nor script debugging to check my scripting skills. I just checked a few boxes and clicked Apply.

I'm growing weary of this discussion....it's like religion...arugggggg

Jodie

8th August 2001, 04:23

Originally posted by wbierman
Cool.

I stick a Win XP disk in and after around the same amount of input, sans the IP address or shared printer info, 2 reboots and Bob's your uncle. I'm on the Net and I click print and it prints. I did not have to play with an IP address nor configure a printer. Prior to the install, the yet to be installed new OS automatically went out and grabed all the latest updates and added them to the install package. It's done!

If I'm lazy I just boot from a floppy and suck a network install down in less than 10 minutes.

Now I have my farm.... there is a new security update. I grab it and create a new Group Policy object. I click apply and it propagates through my farm and all my machines are updated. I only had to touch a single machine. No scripts nor script debugging to check my scripting skills. I just checked a few boxes and clicked Apply.

I'm growing weary of this discussion....it's like religion...arugggggg

I don't have to enter an IP address either. What modern operating system CAN'T do DHCP? DHCP is pre-selected. I prefer to use a fixed address...

I only have one reboot in the process.

The installer checked RedHat for the latest updates to the OS.

If I'm lazy, I turn on Int 18 boot in Bios, and it boots from my Linux Boot Server (which is what I did tonight)

If there's a security update, my auto-updater grabbed it, and since I set the policy to update any security issues, it's automatically updated for me. I didn't click or do anything. No scripts to check my scripting skills, either.

I agree, it does grow tiresome. The fact is, Linux is every bit as mature and feature-rich. Just a MUCH tighter kernel, employing peer-review.