Siggy's 1.2TB dying....HELP

[siggy]

Murphys law is still around.......Argh......

Now my 1.2 TB is trying to die. It will start up but then it shuts itself off after about 2-3 minutes. HELP!!!!!!

What do I check first??????

Sniper is on his way out of town and Virus has already left. Any help will be rewarded with HUGS.

[Dustin]

First thing to check for is HEAT. Check your temps in the BIOS. Do you know what MB you have? Stop running Genome for a while, see if the MB still shuts off.

[siggy]

From what I can tell it was not running for about 7 hours, when I went to get on the computer, it was a blank monitor, but the fans were still running. So I restarted 3 times, and finally got up in safe mode, I restarted again and it looked fine. The the monitor went blank again. I hooked it up to another monitor to make sure the monitor is not the problem and that shows blank too. So right now I have it shut off. Should I restart it and just watch the temps? I know where the temps are before you get into windows. Is that where I should watch it?

[Dustin]

Yep, that's what I would do. If your temps are at ~60c, shut it off! You are better off leaving the box off than killing the CPU. If the temps are ok, and/or the computer doesn't freeze, or shut down while sitting in the BIOS, something else is the problem.

[siggy]

It still got pretty hot with nothing running. Fans are too noisy so I am going to open it up and check things out.

Be back after awhile

[siggy]

Im back.....Case off. All fans running, including the CPU fan. Temp started at 27C is now 45C. With nothing running.

It has not shut off yet. But I forget what the safety is set at.

[verT]

Make sure your Heatsink is making good contact with the cpu sometimes a small bump can konck them out of place.

[siggy]

OK running for 15 minutes now. Has not shut off. Temp holding steady at 45c. It there any way to watch the temps while I am in windows? CMOS is the only place I know.

[verT]

What MB do you have, You can download motherboard monitor (it's free) or if you have a VIA chipset you can use VIAHardware monitor

[Dustin]

Originally posted by siggy
Is there any way to watch the temps while I am in windows? CMOS is the only place I know.

You can DL a copy of MBM here (http://mbm.livewiredev.com/).

[siggy]

Originally posted by verT
What MB do you have, You can download motherboard monitor (it's free) or if you have a VIA chipset you can use VIAHardware monitor

I am quoting the box. The mobo is

MSI K7T Pro 2-A
VIA KT133 Chipset Based

Does this help?

[siggy]

Originally posted by Dustin


You can DL a copy of MBM here (http://mbm.livewiredev.com/).

OK I will go try this. Hopefully it will stay running long enough to down load.

I'll be back.

[verT]

You can use the link Dustin posted above and use MBM it will work fine.

[Dustin]

Good thing it's an MSI board, and not that blasted Abit!

[verT]

What's wrong with ABIT?

[Dustin]

Originally posted by verT
What's wrong with ABIT?

1) Unstable.
2) Too much wasted time configuring.
3) Compatibility problems with various components.

I build a lot of computers. That's been my experience.

Edit- Picture this, you are building 30 computers for a company. The price difference between boards doesn't matter. You don't have the time to waste finding all the updated drivers, what's compatible, and BIOS's. The company wants fast and rock stable boards, without having to constantly watch over and tweak the computers. Keep in mind that you are their hardware tech support. In that position, what would you buy?

I'll give Abit this. They perform about as fast as ASUS. But at a huge price. Stability, and compatibility.

[siggy]

I can't get this link to work. Is the site up?

[Dustin]

It was working when I posted it.:confused:

[siggy]

Link still not working. I did find another website. I downloaded Motherboard Monitor 4.18. However it shows the CPU temp at zero. Am I missing something?

[siggy]

OK the link is back up for MBM. I downloaded 5.09 and it also shows the temp as zero.

No manual or instructions came with. Anyone feel like helping. By the way I am back on my computer. But I don't dare run genome until I can watch the temps.



<<HUGS>> to everyone that has helped so far.

[siggy]

OK I have the temp working now. It shows 23C. Why is it differ from the Bios? Which is accurate?? I am going to try Genome and see what it does to the temps.

[siggy]

Ok another news flash. 23c is the case temp. now I have the CPU temp showing and it says 45c. How high is too high. What can I do to lower the temp?

[viperdog]

At idle I would expect the cpu temp to coast down to 35C or so...

Running genome my 1.2 athlon kicks up to 47C if the case temp is 21 to 23C..right now my case temp is 28C and my cpu is 51C, I don't panick until it hits 53C since on my system once the case temp hits 31C and the processor hits 53C it will probably lock up..


soo..if your reading is 45C with genome running your fine if not then the heatsink on the cpu is messed up I'd say..have you changed the front side bus speed or multiplier in the bios?? That changed wrong can push temps and cause lockups, weirdness..

[siggy]

Originally posted by verT
Make sure your Heatsink is making good contact with the cpu sometimes a small bump can konck them out of place.

What is a heatsink? Is that the fan on the CPU, or maybe is that the metal looking thing between the CPU and the FAN?

How do I make sure it is in good contact?

[siggy]

Originally posted by viperdog
At idle I would expect the cpu temp to coast down to 35C or so...

Running genome my 1.2 athlon kicks up to 47C if the case temp is 21 to 23C..right now my case temp is 28C and my cpu is 51C, I don't panick until it hits 53C since on my system once the case temp hits 31C and the processor hits 53C it will probably lock up..


soo..if your reading is 45C with genome running your fine if not then the heatsink on the cpu is messed up I'd say..have you changed the front side bus speed or multiplier in the bios?? That changed wrong can push temps and cause lockups, weirdness..

No I have not changed any settings. It was running 45c without genome. I have genome running now (13 minutes have elapsed) the temp did a steady rise to 50c now it is holding. This is with the case off.

[viperdog]

The metal thing between the cpu & fan..although most people just think of the "metal thing" and the fan as the "heatsink".

First just look..at the metal clips on either side of the heatsink and verify that they look like they are hooked onto the plastic socket that the cpu rest in.
Does the heatsink look level with the cpu? One **caution** don't try to apply much if any force to the heatsink to see if it is loose. Turn your system off if you need to really mess with the heatsink, only a very brief time is needed to fry your cpu if your system is running and you accidentaly disconnect the heatsink while trying to verify "is it really on there right"..

[viperdog]

Is this a stock heatsink that came with the cpu? Did one of the guys install it for you? I guess I don't know what system you have?

[siggy]

OK I checked it out. Just looked, no touching. It is clipped into place. It appears slightly off tilt. However I go the flashlight and upon closer examination. There it gung (technical term) all around the CPU, almost like the fan is spewing stuff out. And I looked thru the fan to the metal thing and it has a lot of gung on it. Should I take it apart and clean it? While it is off of course. But do I need "stuff" to put it back on? you all have talked about artic stuff. Is this where it gets used? What if I dont have any, is there a household product that I can use?

[siggy]

Originally posted by viperdog
Is this a stock heatsink that came with the cpu? Did one of the guys install it for you? I guess I don't know what system you have?

Yes it was the stock heatsink. Yes Sniper assisted. What part of the system do you need me to tell you what it is? I sure I can find something.

[MechCD]

Originally posted by siggy
Ok another news flash. 23c is the case temp. now I have the CPU temp showing and it says 45c. How high is too high. What can I do to lower the temp?

60C and above is too high for our purposes. SOme will argue and ahem about it, YES tthey CAN run higher than 60c, but why risk shortening the life of the cpu

[LBaker]

Siggy I wouldn't take it apart with the temps you are getting, they seem fine. What os is on this machine? Have you installed any new programs lately? Have you run scandisk and defraged the hd lately? How long has the os been installed? Windows is notorious for becoming weird after a certain amount of time.

[viperdog]

No, that's it..just trying to get a flavor of what I was dealing with...If the temps hold at 50C then that is probably the best that heatsink will do..If the temps (both case & cpu) rise to much after you put the case back togeather then you may need another fan to pull (or push) ait through the system.

If it locks up and your cpu temp is 50C...I would suspect a driver issue , I would make sure to load the latest via 4 in 1 drivers from your motherboard support site.

Some other folks should chime in here..as I've got to go.

[siggy]

Thanks Viperdog <<<HUGS FOR YOU>>> I really appreciate your help. I am going to put the case back on and see what the temps do.

There is a computer expo in town this weekend, so if there is something that I need......this would be the optimum time to tell me.

Thanks again
Siggy :)

[siggy]

Originally posted by LBaker
Siggy I wouldn't take it apart with the temps you are getting, they seem fine. What os is on this machine? Have you installed any new programs lately? Have you run scandisk and defraged the hd lately? How long has the os been installed? Windows is notorious for becoming weird after a certain amount of time.

OS is WinME. Has been installed since April 2001. It was a fresh install because it was a new harddrive. Nothing new installed recently.

[LBaker]

Originally posted by siggy


OS is WinME. Has been installed since April 2001. It was a fresh install because it was a new harddrive. Nothing new installed recently.

I've had the same kind of problems with ME. Do a scandisk and defrag and see if it helps any. If you don't have your data backed up I would do that also. If you continue to have problems after that you may want to reinstall the os.

[siggy]

Thanks LB. I will do the scan disk and defrag.

FYI...I put the case back on and put the computer back on the shelf and the temp has climbed to 57c but appears to be holding.

[Alfred Das]

Originally posted by siggy
There it gung (technical term) all around the CPU, almost like the fan is spewing stuff out. And I looked thru the fan to the metal thing and it has a lot of gung on it. Should I take it apart and clean it? While it is off of course. But do I need "stuff" to put it back on? you all have talked about artic stuff. Is this where it gets used? What if I dont have any, is there a household product that I can use? It is good practice to clean the inside of the computer every 3 months or so, esp. if it runs 24/7.

Just remove the fan from the heatsink (it is most likely fixed with screws) and clean the heatsink and fan. No need to remove the heatsink itself from the cpu, just clean the top - which is the most important part anyway.

The fluid (e.g. Artic Silver) is normally used to improve contact between the cpu and the underside of the heatsink. It is mostly used on overclocked machines to keep the temp as low as possible (or the cpu as fast as possible <g>).

Good luck.

A:

[Yo_Mama]

My T-Bird 1.2@1.3 has been running at 54-59C for the last four months with no probs. I won't start sweating until it hits 70C.

[viperdog]

57C is a tad bit high.. I don't know what type of case your using but the air needs to flow from wherever it enters the case over the motherboard (and primarily the memory, northbridge, & CPU) and out the back.

ops..insert..(northbridge is the chip that talks to memory & the CPU, 1.25 in square with a heatsink on it, sometimes a fan also)

Is there a fan in the front of the unit? Is there a cable to a floppy or HD blocking the air flow? Can you move it around to give the air a chance to move better?

Is there only the fan on the power supply out the back? Is there a place for a second fan ( eg an empty grill, just waiting to be filled)? or maybe a place for a second fan in the front?

Consider one of those slot coolers for VGA cards. They fit in an empty slot (like next to a video card) and have a small centrifigul fan ( like the blower on your furnace). That can help move the air through the case if you have no other way.

If the temps (of the CPU) are going up with the case on it's because the warm air in the case is not getting out, check your case temps in MBM and I'll bet they are close to the same number of degrees warmer than 23C as the CPU is above 50C.

One last note..you said "put it back on the shelf".

Is there room in front and behind the unit to let the air move freely? Did you put it "up" an a shelf ( heat rises, the higher the unit is in the air the warmer it will run). Cool air will always seek the floor.

[siggy]

There is a fan in the front lower part of the case. A fan in the back of the case near the CPU. The CPU fan. I also have a Harddrive fan in one of the front slots. Then of course is the PS fan.

The desk I have, has a kind of cubby hole. That is where the computer lives. I agree that there is not as much air flow as being out in the open, but there is space on all sides (except bottom, of course) for air to move.

I will open the side back up and check the cables and ribbons to make sure they are out of the way. I did not think of that, thank you for pointing that out.

Off the shelf and case open temp 50c
On the shelf and case open temp 53c
On the shelf and case closed temp 57c

Thanks again for everyones help. I really appreciate you all coming to my rescue.
Siggy
<<<HUGS>>>

[wbierman]

Go purchase a can of compressed air. Unplug everything, take it outside and then blow all the dust out. Too much dust impeades air flow. Blow air on your case fans, blow air through your power supply, and blow air ayt your CPU and heatsink/fan. Take Q-tips and wipe of the edges of your fan blades. All that gunk on them reduces their efficency.

[MechCD]

Originally posted by siggy
There is a fan in the front lower part of the case. A fan in the back of the case near the CPU. The CPU fan. I also have a Harddrive fan in one of the front slots. Then of course is the PS fan.



The desk I have, has a kind of cubby hole. That is where the computer lives. I agree that there is not as much air flow as being out in the open, but there is space on all sides (except bottom, of course) for air to move.



I will open the side back up and check the cables and ribbons to make sure they are out of the way. I did not think of that, thank you for pointing that out.



Off the shelf and case open temp 50c

On the shelf and case open temp 53c

On the shelf and case closed temp 57c



Thanks again for everyones help. I really appreciate you all coming to my rescue.

Siggy

<<<HUGS>>>

Does this shelf have a door? If it does, leave the door open.

I've seen someone with a pute in a desk cabinent (specifically for towers) and they kept the door closed.... the thing locked up every 20 minutes... the joys of bein a puter tech :D

[siggy]

Nope. No door. But thanks.:D

[siggy]

Well I opened up the case. Moved the cables out of the way. Used compressed air and cleaned all the gunk out of the heatsink. Added another fan. (one of those turbine looking thing that goes in a slot) Temp still at 59c.

[Jodie]

Try removing both sides from the case and doing what Pell calls "A Jodie Special" - Put a big box fan on the mobo side and strap it around the case. I get 12deg C cooling from that on my dual...

[Daniel, Laura, and Nora]

As you know, I couldn't tell a heatsink from a bunghole but that doesn't stop me from weighing in on this lofty discussion.

Since some folks seem to get away with cpu temps in the stratosphere (59C will cook a t-bone, though VERY slooowly), I wonder if temp is really the problem at all. Maybe the box has always run that hot. Maybe Windows ME blew a gasket or something.

Just a thought before you install a Jodie Special! :D I'm tempted to install a JS just for the giggle value, although its a noisy solution. Jodie probably has about as much hearing left as Peter Townsend.

Daniel

[Alfred Das]

Some mobo's, like f.i. ASUS boards, report higher CPU/MB temps by default.

A:

[Jodie]

Originally posted by Daniel, Laura, and Nora
Just a thought before you install a Jodie Special! :D I'm tempted to install a JS just for the giggle value, although its a noisy solution. Jodie probably has about as much hearing left as Peter Townsend.

Daniel [/B]

Naw, I'm upstairs in my bedroom on a console, the computers are all downstairs in the computer room, well insulated from temps and my hearing... :p Besides, the fan speed's set on "one", doesn't that count?

[siggy]

Well I have pulled the computer out of the cubby hole about 4 inches to allow more circulation at the back of the computer. The temp is now hanging at 55c

[Daniel, Laura, and Nora]

More is always better (especially for Jodie).

Jodie, if you get 12C cooling from a single 20" fan set on 1, imagine what might happen if you strapped two fans to the box and cranked them all the way up? For style points you could put a dust filter over the intake fan.

My box fan, by the way, goes up to 11....

D

[Jodie]

Naw, I doubt that it'd cool it any more at all... Actually - experiment time... I'll set it to '11' and go take a walk, come back and see what the difference is - ambiant is 19deg C right now, CPU1 is 42deg C, CPU2 is 38deg C...

(Gosh that's loud)

Time is 16:18 PDT.


Time now is 16:55 (the walk was nice, thank you, if a bit warm...)

CPU1: 41 deg C, CPU2 is 38deg C. No real difference. Ambiant is 19 deg C.

Think I'll leave it at its lowest setting...
:p :D

[Dustin]

I'm surprised it didn't blow the computer over!

[siggy]

They probably would have had they not been stack right next to each other. :D

I picture this computer room with rows and rows of computers. All with their sides off so the box fan can blow right thru. :D

[wbierman]

How about stacking them in order of box fan - case, box fan - case, etc and call it "wind tunnel cooling."

[Jodie]

tried it - blows hot air into the next machine - not a good idea. :p :D

[wbierman]

How about increasing the surface area of the heat sink?

[Jodie]

I just go for extra fannage. They're cheap!;) :D

[wbierman]

Design your own line of Uber Fem Heatsinks!

[Jodie]

In designer shapes and colors - hey! I like it!:cool: :D

[wbierman]

Market to ALL the Uber Fems of the world. No one has done that! Case Mods for the Uber Fem!

[Jodie]

<valley-girl accent> I'm so there! Shaa! [giggle] </valley-girl accent>

[wbierman]

Oh stop it or I'm going to hurl.......

[Jodie]

That'd make twice tonight!

[Jodie]

hate it when I can't get my browser to update the list when email says there's something there...

[wbierman]

Are you counting how many times I hurl?

[Jodie]

hey, everyone needs a hobby... :p

[wbierman]

Or a life perhaps...

[Jodie]

I'll take two - they're small...

[viperdog]

just to clarify...Hurls or Lifes???

sorry couldn't resist.

Hey you know if you replaced that box fan....you could have the worlds first "Oscillating Server", :D ...cable management might be tough...

[Jodie]

Cool idea! Get passive AND active cooling! WOOHOO! (Lives, not hurls, thanks:p )

[siggy]

Well Siggys computer has finally died. :( I am trying to see what I can do to get it back up and working.

In the meantime, I will not be crunching. Nor can I be posting unless I can beg, borrow, or steal a computer.

Please make sure someone goes over and post on GRGi, just to let them know we are still comming up behind them.

Hope to be back soon:(

<<HUGS everyone>>