Proposition to reset all team stats.

[dnar]

I found this today on Yahoo. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genomeathome/message/3184) A very interesting proposition... Just watch the tempers fly!

[siggy]

I think it would be cool. What are we going to do after 3rd?

This will add spice, and competition on a more level playing field.

[dnar]

It certainly would solve the issue of Ars and [H] having gained so much of a lead under the old scoring system.

[wylie]

Yeah....ars have a hellovan advantage having crunched so much under the old (ie - worth more!) stats weighting....H did bloody well to catch up to them but hell....look at the team graphs!!
we cant compete with that!

I like his thinking, but the prob I see is that Ars or H would win every year, so why bother?

remember guys & siggy....."the project!!!!! the project!!!!!" :)

[Dustin]

Originally posted by dnar
It certainly would solve the issue of Ars and [H] having gained so much of a lead under the old scoring system.

No it wouldn't. Ars and [H] would end up exactly where they are now. We would end up 3rd. In fact, if production stays the same, Ars and [H] would take the lead. We would immediately be 3rd.

It would have the effect of instantly ranking every team by their week totals.

[Bruce]

Actually, a similar idea was tossed around when the stats changed. Given that the new stats didn't match the old ones, declare the beta contest of the stats over and start over with the released version.

I could like the idea.

We'd certainly work harder on recruitment for the start of a new season. And would we need a "draft"?

[Dustin]

Originally posted by Bruce
We'd certainly work harder on recruitment for the start of a new season. And would we need a "draft"?

Hello?? We would immediately be 3rd. Why would we need to recruit?

[Bruce]

To be second. (You give up too easily.)

Or to fend off some upstart team that's attracting new members.

[Dustin]

Not likely. We would need to increase production 5 times over... Yeah, that's another 500 crunchers! :eek:

[siggy]

maybe with the new stats we could bring our total "individual stats" with us. Then we could go and pimp ppl from other teams. Course on the other hand if we keep starting over then the history won't matter will it?

[Medic193]

Well I don't think [H] would ever agree to it. Not to start any flames, but most of their memebrs are in this only to be #1. From the way they jump from 1 project to another, it doesn't seem like they really care about what the project is for as much as just getting to the top spot. Just my thoughts.

[siggy]

Thats a good point, Medic.

[Bruce]

Originally posted by Medic193
Well I don't think [H] would ever agree to it. Not to start any flames, but most of their memebrs are in this only to be #1. From the way they jump from 1 project to another, it doesn't seem like they really care about what the project is for as much as just getting to the top spot. Just my thoughts.

And then they could say -- we were already #1, let's go do something else -- and nobody would stay. This was, if you loose your team to another project, you've still got history to be overcome -- and when somebody get's close, you've got a chance to call your ex-team members back from whatever they've gone to.

I think in the long run, it would hurt G@H -- though it is not obvious.

[Dustin]

Originally posted by Bruce
I think in the long run, it would hurt G@H -- though it is not obvious.

It is obvious. If Stefen were to ever do this, I think G@H would loose at least 50% of its members. Nobody wants to keep starting over...

I like what the G@H project is about, but if all my hard work was wiped out every 6mo, I'd have to re-evaluate the project.

[dnar]

Originally posted by Dustin




It is obvious. If Stefen were to ever do this, I think G@H would loose at least 50% of its members. Nobody wants to keep starting over...



I like what the G@H project is about, but if all my hard work was wiped out every 6mo, I'd have to re-evaluate the project.
Dustin, not takin a dig or anything, but our work would not be wiped out, only the stats....

[Dustin]

Originally posted by dnar

Dustin, not takin a dig or anything, but our work would not be wiped out, only the stats....

Rite, but I like many others am very proud of the work I've done. I personally want people to know how much work I've put into the project.

That may sound selfish, but I've got 12 expensive machines crunching. You think I deserve to have my hard earned stats constantly wiped out?

[dnar]

Originally posted by Dustin







Rite, but I like many others am very proud of the work I've done. I personally want people to know how much work I've put into the project.





That may sound selfish, but I've got 12 expensive machines crunching. You think I deserve to have my hard earned stats constantly wiped out?

Yup, I know what you mean. Your stats are the only token reward you get, and well deserved. Mate, you have some serious quid invested in this project, I salute ya! :D

[phil]

Originally posted by Dustin


Rite, but I like many others am very proud of the work I've done. I personally want people to know how much work I've put into the project.

That may sound selfish, but I've got 12 expensive machines crunching. You think I deserve to have my hard earned stats constantly wiped out?


Yup, I totally aggree Dustin. I also wouldn't like to have to keep restarting every 6-12 months. I would be prepared to do it once when the client goes out of the Beta stage and into the released stage. This would ensure that everyone started on an even footing...all of the newer teams are at an immediate disadvantage because of the change in how the work is scored.

[Dustin]

Now that sounds completely reasonable.

[Medic193]

It always would be possible to keep everyones individual stats the same, just the team stats would blank out. So every 6 months your team starts fresh at 0.

[Bruce]

Originally posted by phil

Yup, I totally aggree Dustin. I also wouldn't like to have to keep restarting every 6-12 months. I would be prepared to do it once when the client goes out of the Beta stage and into the released stage. This would ensure that everyone started on an even footing...all of the newer teams are at an immediate disadvantage because of the change in how the work is scored.

It's not so much the client going out of beta, but the stats. Too many people got a big advantage by hoarding the small AAs and distorted the results. When the stats were changed it would have made sense to set them back to zero to use the "corrected" system, particularly since the average value went down, giving the incumbents a big advantage over the newbies.

The fact that the stats changed within a short time of the (expected) release of gold client made it more palatable to make even a single reset. It's all very political.
Originally posted by dnar
A very interesting proposition... Just watch the tempers fly!

The more we talk about it, the more disadvantages I see. After all, the competition we're having with Picard, OCN, etc. wouldn't exist within a single season. We'd be 3rd by the end of the first week and stay there.

[dnar]

Originally posted by Bruce






<snip>





The more we talk about it, the more disadvantages I see. After all, the competition we're having with Picard, OCN, etc. wouldn't exist within a single season. We'd be 3rd by the end of the first week and stay there.





Yeh, I agree, What would have been fairer, if the calculation had been changed to:
units = (0.0025*aa^2 + 0.05*aa) * 2

This is 2 x the current calculation, giving approximately the same score as previously for a 50aa whoonit.

The old calculation used to be roughly units = 0.3*aa.

[siggy]

So is anyone letting Stephan know it is a bad idea?

[Dustin]

Originally posted by siggy
So is anyone letting Stephan know it is a bad idea?

Stefan hasn't even replied about it. The whole idea is from some yahoo idiot!

Probably someone that started late, and feels cheated.

[Jodie]

I understand clearing after a beta, but frankly, if they keep clearing it all the time I'd most likely drop the project... I enjoy the stats but even more, watching my growth and accumulation in comparison to others... If the stats get nuked tooo often, I get very little in the warm-and-fuzzies department on a daily basis. 22 machines at the moment, in the top 25 producers generally for the project. I need the daily feedback and stimulation to keep me interested over the long haul.

I notice sometimes, though, that it's the big farm types that don't want the stats reset and the onsie-twosie folks that think the stats are 'unfair' because of some headstart. Several thoughts there:

1) Unfair or not, if the stats get reset and you have a PIII-700 and I have 24Ghz of machines crunching 24/7 and never being touched for anything else - how long before it becomes 'unfair again'

2) it's the onsie-twosie that really make the project. Those of us with farms are kidding ourselves if we don't see that.

3) if someone thinks it's 'unfair' that I've climbed 9100 ladder rungs in the last month, then go get a farm and come play...

Overall, I think it's a negative idea - but again, it's the onsie-twosie who make the project. If they're smart, they'll heed what they want. My 22 machines could disappear tomorrow and make no practical difference statistically to the project... (Digital Design Lab, on the other hand, is an exception. :rolleyes: ;) )

[Jodie]

There's another way to look at it - from a farm-owners prospective...

The elder-players deserve all the head start they can get because they are at a serious long-term disadvantage for two reasons -

Let's look at Pell and myself, as an example.

Pell started back when the client was SERIOUSLY flakey. I had only a week from .98 to .99 which is a thousand fold more stable, IMHO than .98. So he had to live through much tougher times.

More seriously though is (extended) Moore's Law.

Every 18 months, double the processing power will cost half as much.

So if Pell starts 18 months before me, and I want to catch him 18 months after I start, I can do it for HALF of what he paid. That's a pretty tremendous downstroke!

Nope. As a newcomer myself, I say give all the old-timers every advantage in the world. If they want to play the stats-game (and those of us with farms generally do), they're going to need it... 'cause with every new processor release, they watch their investment going down the toilet right beside their lead...

Ok, I've belabored this point enough... :rolleyes: :D

[Bruce]

I would be in favor of some type of system that clears out all of the dead users -- like the ones that couldn't spell their own name the same way twice. That's not the same thing, though.

[MechCD]

Originally posted by Bruce
I would be in favor of some type of system that clears out all of the dead users -- like the ones that couldn't spell their own name the same way twice. That's not the same thing, though.

I like that idea, or remove the user from the team list if they have been inactive fore say 2 months, that way peeps could still nonet.

I don't think the stats should be reset, if it were to happen, it should havbe happened already (when the new stats formula came out). I don't call .99 a beta, it seems very unbuggy to me. Now the first version that came out was a lil different.

I also agree with jodie's respect yer elders type thing

[Stilgar]

After all the bi**hing about the wu credit, doing a reset would make some real hot topics. I think all it would do is tick more people off and cause more work and stats problems for Stefan. A lot of people would be no-neting for extended periods toward the end of a cycle since places would already be set, then massive dumps at the beginning of a new cycle to try to get an edge on the new one. For some reason I don't think it would fly.

[MechCD]

Oh yeah, i can see that happening (not joking either)

Nonett my 3.5ghz (or whatever i have) for 6 months and then dump..... what if the whole team did that? we'd blip on and off the stats charts every 6months

this whole reset thing is a baaad idea

[siggy]

Originally posted by Bruce
I would be in favor of some type of system that clears out all of the dead users -- like the ones that couldn't spell their own name the same way twice. That's not the same thing, though.

That would be cool to clean out the "extra" names. They could even add them to anonymous. So they are still units to our team.